Minimum wage

[JustHereNotStaying]

I am a little confused why would you get a reference from a place you are trying to leave? They are giving you a bad offer and it clearly shows how much they don't appreciate you. The point is they are trying to make you work for bad pay and don't want you to go. Find someone you made friends with at the firm that is supportive of you leaving and use them as a reference. If not, then use a different past workplace as a reference. When you start a job, you have to make sure you will be able to exit one day. Test the water and see how they react to different scenarios (obviously without jeopardizing your job).

If you realize the workplace is going to be vindictive when you leave you might want to exit earlier and look for other opportunities and potential references. Also, if a recruiter is asking you why you want to leave, just say you are exploring your opportunities as your contract/time is ending. The firm you are at wants you back but you want to expand your knowledge at this new firm for X Y Z reasons. A recruiter won't call the firm that gave you an offer and ask them for a reference usually - conflict of interest (they are a competitor and want you as well so might as well give you a bad review).

The point is to work with a bad situation and make the old workplace less credible if they have something negative to say. We do this in law all the time.

Edited July 9, 2022 by JustHereNotStaying

[123]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:56 AM, JustHereNotStaying said:

A recruiter won't call the firm that gave you an offer and ask them for a reference usually - conflict of interest (they are a competitor and want you as well so might as well give you a bad review).

When you say recruiter, what do you mean?

Are you talking about the new places at which OP might be applying? If so, I wouldn’t necessarily agree with this. Lawyers practicing similar areas of law can have collegial relationships. Most areas of law have relatively small bars. I work pretty closely with others who are technically “competitors.” If I know and respect lawyer X and get a resume from their former articling student, I might very well ask X about their student. Especially if the candidate says they’re just leaving at the end of their contract. That makes it sound like the old employer is aware that that they’re leaving. In any case, I wouldn’t assume different small firms aren’t in touch. Likewise, I wouldn’t assume that an application will remain confidential. That hasn’t been my experience. Lawyers talk amongst themselves.

If you’re talking about recruiters in the headhunter sense, maybe you’re right. I’ve never used a recruiter. But my understanding is that recent calls looking for work in lower paying, rural AB law aren’t usually using headhunters to find their first associate jobs. 

On 7/9/2022 at 10:56 AM, JustHereNotStaying said:

[…] and make the old workplace less credible if they have something negative to say. We do this in law all the time.

I’m not quite sure what this means. In any case, I would be careful about going out and trashing a former employer. Even if someone is correct in criticizing their former employer, I consider attempts to “make the old workplace less credible” a pretty risky employment search tactic. I mean, sure, be forthright on any questions asked of you. But if you’re talking about trying to discredit a former employer the way you would a hostile witness, I don’t know if that’s the best tactic employment-wise. Again, it’s a small profession. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by realpseudonym

[SNAILS]

To the OP, I'm sorry is this comment is going to be controversial or offensive. But do you think you worked as hard and as well as you possibly could have in your articulating year? Were they happy with your performance?

The law firm I a summering at is about as small a firm in as small a town as it could possibly be an still call it a "firm" and not a "lawyer with an assistant." I could drop out of law school right now and make $50 000 to $60 000 with benefits (law clerk type function; free parking).  

[CleanHands]

5 minutes ago, SNAILS said:

But do you think you worked as hard and as well as you possibly could have in your articulating year?

Bruh...

Some employers are just shittier than others.

[SNAILS]

1 hour ago, CleanHands said:

Bruh...

Some employers are just shittier than others.

And I apologize for that comment.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around why an employer would not pay fair market value for labour when they know that the person will just go elsewhere and they will lose that person.

Edited July 24, 2022 by SNAILS

[Snax]

1 hour ago, SNAILS said:

And I apologize for that comment.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around why an employer would not pay fair market value for labour when they know that the person will just go elsewhere and they will lose that person.

Because, for some, the train of thought is “I’m going to pay as little as I can for someone to work here. When they leave, I will do this again with a new person.” 
 

It all just goes back to the comment that some employers are shittier than others, and it doesn’t really need more of an explanation than that. This isn’t an economics exercise. 

[Turtles]

8 hours ago, SNAILS said:

And I apologize for that comment.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around why an employer would not pay fair market value for labour when they know that the person will just go elsewhere and they will lose that person.

Sometimes the cost of replacing an employee is less than paying reasonable wages, sometimes people will be content with a below market job for other perks/personal reasons (e.g., close to home, friends with coworkers, personal beliefs about being loyal to one's job, work permit tied to employer, flexibility that works with family care responsibilities, etc), and sometimes employees are too lazy or busy to look elsewhere. Not everyone's primary motivation is money. Especially generationally. Shitty employers love to prey on such people.

[PzabbytheLawyer]

I find a great way to figure out if you're underpaid in a private practice that's largely on a billed basis, is to multiply your hours billed by your hourly rate, and multiply that by a collection rate of about 70 percent, and see what figure you come up with over 12 months.

If it's more than four times what you're paid, you're likely underpaid. Or, the firm may be very inefficient at collecting. Or, your hours may be more inefficient than your average junior. Or a collection of all the above.

All the figures above are conservative estimates which assume good faith for the employer.

[Louis St. Laurent]

If I had to guess, they don't want to hire you back, but they're non-confrontational and don't want to fire you or tell you you're not hired back. 

That's a pretty ridiculous offer, paying a 3rd/4th year call 40K per year with no bonus at all. That's low even for articling these days, even in a small town.