Been wait listed since April 27, what's next?

[Sacamano]

Just now, StephenToast said:

I'm genuinely curious what OP wrote in their personal statement.

"To reiterate my qualifications, I repeat I have a GPA and LSAT that exceeds your class median's. I look forward to hearing back in January, April by the latest. Let me know if I need to complete Part B. If so, I will share my experiences in Africa."

[Ryn]

Okay guys, let's dial back the clearly inflammatory posts and derogatory comments. I get it, OP, you're frustrated, but there's no need to resort to that kind of behaviour. I've deleted a bunch of posts.

To the OP:

I used to be on the adcom, so take what I say as you will. Other than applicants above the presumptive admit threshold, Osgoode takes files at random not alphabetically. This is a change from when Osgoode used to forward files in order of strength of stats. The class is filled up as all applications are read, but all applications are read. There are usually a sufficient number of spots to consider all meritorious applicants seriously. I don't know how things are because of COVID. If what has happened at other schools is indicative, it's likely it is particularly competitive this year.

It is basically never advantageous to have low stats with Part B considerations. If you want to make that claim because you're angry, go ahead, but know that there is no basis to that in reality. Those people who got in with lower stats than you probably did so because of merit and not because they had some "minority-based sob story" or whatever analogous pejorative you implied in your previous posts.

Osgoode owes you nothing. You applied, you will get a decision. They don't need to tell you until they do. I know it sucks, because I was there as an applicant too (hey, fun fact, I was rejected my first time around and went to grad school instead). Schools are entitled to run their admissions process as they see fit, but I can tell you that Osgoode's is actually a pretty well-oiled machine and they're pretty sensitive to what applicants are going through. They keep applicants in the running as long as feasible, unlike some schools that reject very quickly. This is why you still don't know how things will turn out because it is literally still up in the air. If you'd prefer to have an answer now, you can always withdraw; at least that way you'll know the answer for sure: no.

I've got some other thoughts but for now I'll leave it at this.

Putting my mod hat on: please keep it civil. I'm fine with posts criticizing schools' processes, but outright inflammatory comments or insults will result in warnings and/or a thread lock.

Edit to add: for context I wanted to mention that I was on the adcom several years ago and things might be different now, especially in light of COVID and the resulting uptick in law school applications. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Ryn

[Apple]

3 hours ago, Thelight said:

They don’t care? Well maybe they should. You’d think an institution with the status of Osgoode could process everyone’s applications in a timely manner. Maybe we paid a damn application fee and are actual human beings who need to have an actual answer in a reasonable amount of time ( 8 months for Christ’s sake) order to prepare for the not so distant future (September). Maybe your parents take care of that all for you but I myself am not spoon-fed, so it would be kinda nice if they did their jobs in a timely way so I know how my living arrangement is gonna look like well in advance. It really can’t be anything other than incompetence. Don’t get triggered when I say that. I am not saying it’s that for sure but given the dead silence, it’s the only thing I can conclude. I got one response from them a little while ago and it seems I am unofficially waitlisted. They basically told me that I am a really competitive candidate but they had filled up their whole class and something tells me they did it before even reviewing my file. I mean how does it make sense that after April 1, they continue to accept from queue? By that date, everyone should either be accepted, waitlisted or rejected. If they truly saw my file before April 1 and deemed me a borderline candidate, they would simply waitlist me. The fact that they accept from queue in April and beyond seems sus because it hints that they delay reviewing some people’s files until after April 1. And that’s obviously messed up because now I finally get a chance to have my file seen but I am vying with other candidates for a much smaller amount of available seats. In short, all I ask is that they don’t hand out acceptances like snacks and empty their jar before actually reviewing EVERYONE’s files so as to ensure that the whole process remains comparative. Otherwise, what the hell is the point of all this? I can’t even expect that? 

In the interest of Ryn's post I'll remark with this.  

You have every right to be frustrated. You have every right to be discouraged. I can empathize with you with this. You can advocate a view point for having admissions be done differently. I can certainly support you with such a dialogue. But I don't think it's acceptable, productive or professional to insult admissions committee members on the basis of assumptions nor to toss around the rhetoric that you have directed towards others on this forum. It's certainly within your right to do so, but you can expect your expression of ideas to be challenged in the market place of ideas that is the internet. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Apple

[CleanHands]

15 minutes ago, Ryn said:

It is basically never advantageous to have low stats with Part B considerations. If you want to make that claim because you're angry, go ahead, but know that there is no basis to that in reality. Those people who got in with lower stats than you probably did so because of merit and not because they had some "minority-based sob story" or whatever analogous pejorative you implied in your previous posts.

@Ryn It was not the OP who posted that; that was @Thelight. The OP has written some things that got some (deserved) pushback as well, but let's be fair and not (inadvertently, I'm sure) delete posts and then point fingers about what they contained in the wrong direction.

Edited June 29, 2021 by CleanHands

[Yogurt Baron]

2 hours ago, Thelight said:

I have 2 options it seems. Either bump my GPA and LSAT to presumptive admit status or get a lousy 3.1 GPA and 155 LSAT but have a nice compelling sob story and talk about my trip to Zimbabwe that my parents funded where I was able to be a beacon of hope for all the helpless people there.

I understand that you're frustrated. Not getting into law school is frustrating. Believe me, I know that.

But it's odd to assert, as you have repeatedly, that low stats provide an advantage in law school admissions. Holistic admissions processes do, indeed, make it likelier that people with lower stats will have their applications accepted despite those lower stats. But I'd be amazed if low stats were ever, in and of themselves, helpful. I'm not going to get into an argument around the validity of holistic / access admissions, but if you sincerely believe that an institution is so incompetent as to let in the worst candidates because they're the worst candidates, you probably shouldn't go to that institution anyhow.

ETA: I see Ryn and I cross-posted. There's no greater authority here on Osgoode's admission policies, and if you're going to listen to anyone, listen to him.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Yogurt Baron

[Yogurt Baron]

Just now, CleanHands said:

Two other people double posted in this very thread earlier. I wonder if it's actually an issue with the forums.

On my end, it doesn't appear that my posts are submitting. I click the "Submit Reply" button, and nothing appears to happen on my end (but it's actually posting).

[BlackcurrantBanana]

1 minute ago, Yogurt Baron said:

On my end, it doesn't appear that my posts are submitting. I click the "Submit Reply" button, and nothing appears to happen on my end (but it's actually posting).

Yup, this happened to me. Are you on posting on your mobile device?

[Thelight]

27 minutes ago, Apple said:

The number of assumption in this post is incredible. Do you have any credible evidence that Osgoode does not have an initial ranking system of applications so as to ensure some comparative process is engaged from the onset? Do you have any evidence that Osgoode did not review your file prior to sending out offers to others? And no, hunches- no matter how sincerely believed- do not constitute as evidence. A word of caution, don't operate off assumptions so quickly. 

You also don't seem to know what you "paid a damn application fee" for. You paid it to have your application reviewed and it has been. Somehow you think you paid it to be told a response by July. You show me anywhere where anyone told you that in consideration for your $100 application fee you will be entitled to a response by July. If you can do that then we can have a talk about what you're entitled to and what you're not. Even if you were entitled to a response by July, which you're in fact not, that still doesn't warrant demeaning the admission committee. Just because you paid for something does not entitle you to be demeaning to others. I can only imagine how you treat retail staff, but will reserve drawing a conclusion as this would be assumptive.  

The reality is these sorts of decisions have to be made all the time. There are countless times where you won't get a response in the manner or time frame you wanted, if at all, but will nonetheless have to make a decision. What will you do as a lawyer when faced with circumstances such as this and having a client call you up demanding your advice on what to do. I had to do a similar thing during the 1L recruit as I had a number of job offers set to expire but was still waiting for a response back from my top choice. You know what I did? I didn't decry the firm's process for notifying students of jobs - I calculated the risks and rewards and made a decision. 

Finally, I really caution you against this attitude that people in law school are there because of mommy and daddy. During my time at law school I got to know virtually everyone in my year. I met just one guy who's aunt was paying his entire education and he was a really nice guy. Almost everyone else there was paying the entire tuition themselves and they too were really nice people. This sort of "mommy and daddy pay everything for them" thinking really reeks "woe is me" and is often wrong.  

You have every right to be frustrated. You have every right to be discouraged. I can empathize with you in this. You can advocate a view point for having admissions be done differently. I can certainly support you with such a dialogue. But I don't think it's acceptable, productive or professional to insult admissions committee members on the basis of assumptions nor to toss around the rhetoric that you have directed towards others on this forum. It's certainly within your right to do so, so don't get triggered that your speech is being taken away, but you can expect your expression of ideas to be challenged in the market place of ideas that is the internet. 

@Ryn literally just said that they read applications in a random order, and not in some coherent fashion like strength of stats (which I advocate and shouldn’t get crucified for—it’s my opinion at the end of the day so if you don’t like it, I won’t sleep one second of sleep over it). So if they read apps in random order, then that strongly insinuates that they run the risk of emptying their “jar” of acceptances before even glancing at other potentially competitive candidates down the line or order or queue or w.e you wanna call it. And when they DO get to those other candidates later, those candidates now have to compete for a smaller number of spots than the candidates who were reviewed before them (and whose profile may be inferior to theirs) because the order was random. I don’t know what the solution is but I am not happy with the way it is now. Anyway, I appreciate it that you recognize my frustration. I just wanted some sympathy because it’s not “normal” that a candidate with my stats gets no reply (or essentially rejected at this point). I just wish I was born earlier and had applied in an earlier cycle because then I wouldn’t have to probably deal with this. And on a final note, I am not triggered at all by what others say. In fact, I get a nice rush from quarrelling with others. I am all for free speech. Everyone should be able to speak their minds and everyone should learn to not get triggered. If anything, I feel muzzled for having half of my posts deleted. Let’s tell like it is! Leave “em there! Anyway, imma head out before the romans try to crucify me again. God bless you all! 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Thelight

[Renerik]

6 minutes ago, Thelight said:

So if they read apps in random order, then that strongly insinuates that they run the risk of emptying their “jar” of acceptances before even glancing at other potentially competitive candidates

They want students with a high luck stat. You just aren't it 🤷‍♂️.

[Ryn]

6 minutes ago, Thelight said:

and not in some coherent fashion like strength of stats (which I advocate and shouldn’t get crucified for—it’s my opinion at the end of the day so if you don’t like it, I won’t sleep one second of sleep over it)

They moved away from that because it does not align with their desire to review applications holistically. There is still a large weight put on stats but there is naturally an inordinate amount of advantage raw stats would have if you actually considered applications in that order.

[Apple]

8 minutes ago, Thelight said:

@Ryn literally just said that they read applications in a random order, and not in some coherent fashion like strength of stats (which I advocate and shouldn’t get crucified for—it’s my opinion at the end of the day so if you don’t like it, I won’t sleep one second of sleep over it). So if they read apps in random order, then that strongly insinuates that they run the risk of emptying their “jar” of acceptances before even glancing at other potentially competitive candidates down the line or order or queue or w.e you wanna call it. And when they get to those other candidates later, they now have to compete for a smaller number of spots than the candidates who were reviewed before them (and whose profile may be inferior to theirs) because the order was random. I don’t know what the solution is but I am not happy with the way it is now. Anyway, I appreciate it that you recognize my frustration. I just wanted some sympathy because it’s not “normal” that a candidate with my stats gets no reply (or essentially rejected at this point). I just wish I was born earlier and had applied in an earlier cycle because then I wouldn’t have to probably deal with this. And on a final note, I am not triggered at all by what others say. In fact, I get a nice rush from quarrelling with others. I am all for free speech. Everyone should be able to speak their minds and everyone should learn to not get triggered. If anything, I feel muzzled for having half of my posts deleted. Let’s tell like it is! Leave “em there! Anyway, imma head out before the romans try to crucify me again. 

I can appreciate this. And for what it is worth, I really urge you not to abandon this forum as a whole. I think you'll find many here are full of rich knowledge and are extremely helpful - this will be a great resource to you in the coming years. I for one am happy to help answer any questions I can, be it in relation to law school and beyond. Although my knowledge is limited to the Ontario context. 

Having been an Osgoode student I will also be the first to admit that there is a number of things I would like to see fixed at the school. Most of my ramblings over the years have related to Osgoode's connection with York University but I can be the first to step up and critique the school in a number of areas. 

My PMs are open if you ever want to chat about anything related to law school or the legal profession more broadly! Cheers! 

[Thelight]

7 minutes ago, Apple said:

I can appreciate this. And for what it is worth, I really urge you not to abandon this forum as a whole. I think you'll find many here are full of rich knowledge and are extremely helpful - this will be a great resource to you in the coming years. I for one am happy to help answer any questions I can, be it in relation to law school and beyond. Although my knowledge is limited to the Ontario context. 

Having been an Osgoode student I will also be the first to admit that there is a number of things I would like to see fixed at the school. Most of my ramblings over the years have related to Osgoode's connection with York University but I can be the first to step up and critique the school in a number of areas. 

My PMs are open if you ever want to chat about anything related to law school or the legal profession more broadly! Cheers! 

God bless, will do! I am accepted at a few other schools so I will keep in touch for anything important. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Thelight

[takemebacktothe2000s]

2 hours ago, Ryn said:

Okay guys, let's dial back the clearly inflammatory posts and derogatory comments. I get it, OP, you're frustrated, but there's no need to resort to that kind of behaviour. I've deleted a bunch of posts.

I hope that you've taken a look at other people's posts and taken down their "inflammatory posts and derogatory comments" as well. Because I have had a lot of responses on here insulting my intelligence, my stats, etc.

I'm not sure what the original intent of this forum started of with, but from my personal experience being here for all of just TWO DAYS - it seems that this forum is filled with trolls that don't have support or advice for prospective law students. Rather it is a community for people to completely trash one's reputation, intellect, and general character on. I sincerely hope that since you are the moderator/admin of this forum, you take action on what you have just deemed to be "inflammatory posts and derogatory comments". 

[CleanHands]

3 minutes ago, takemebacktothe2000s said:

Rather it is a community for people to completely trash one's reputation, intellect, and general character on. I sincerely hope that since you are the moderator/admin of this forum, you take action on what you have just deemed to be "inflammatory posts and derogatory comments". 

You mean like these posts? 🤔

On 6/26/2021 at 11:49 PM, takemebacktothe2000s said:

Can anyone provide any insight as to whether this is typical Ontario behaviour or just plain stupidity on the part of the admission department?

 

22 hours ago, takemebacktothe2000s said:

So this sums up my impression of their admission department, which is that it is clearly incompetent and stupid. 

 

22 hours ago, takemebacktothe2000s said:

I paid over $300 like everyone else on here to have my application viewed by their department and the fact that people with 170+ scores haven't heard zip from Osgoode points to the fact that they are clearly incompetent morons. 

 

5 hours ago, takemebacktothe2000s said:

Thank you for being the one person on here with some semblance of logic, decency, and common courtesy. I think a lot of people on here are trust-fund kids that rely on mommy and daddy to fund their lifestyle.

 

5 hours ago, takemebacktothe2000s said:

From what I've seen, there aren't any reasons except people getting triggered by the fact that I'm calling the admissions department incompetent...which is it is, based on my experience from all the other schools I've applied to and received a decision from. 

Nobody needs to trash your reputation, intellect or character, because you do a great job of that yourself.

[Ryn]

14 minutes ago, takemebacktothe2000s said:

I hope that you've taken a look at other people's posts and taken down their "inflammatory posts and derogatory comments" as well. Because I have had a lot of responses on here insulting my intelligence, my stats, etc.

I'm not sure what the original intent of this forum started of with, but from my personal experience being here for all of just TWO DAYS - it seems that this forum is filled with trolls that don't have support or advice for prospective law students. Rather it is a community for people to completely trash one's reputation, intellect, and general character on. I sincerely hope that since you are the moderator/admin of this forum, you take action on what you have just deemed to be "inflammatory posts and derogatory comments". 

I'll admit I conflated some of your posts with another poster during my quick skim of the thread, but I think my comment can apply generally to a number of posters here.

One of the purposes of this forum is to provide frank advice to applicants who come here with an often skewed understanding of how law schools, legal education, and legal practice generally work. The vast majority of the time it is provided in a a diplomatic way, but I can't help but say that you invited the kind of responses you are getting. You're effectively demanding that you be admitted and cannot fathom why you have not. I'm not sure what "support or advice" you would want to have offered to you, other than us agreeing that the system is fucked and you're clearly entitled to your desire.

No and no. Some of the posts in this thread could have been worded better, but I agree with the gist of it generally.

Anyway, seems like this thing has run its course.