UBC admissions wokeness

[CBay]

1 minute ago, Hegdis said:

So obviously you wouldn't know this but it's a court directive that counsel identify their name and preferred pronouns before every court appearance in BC. And lawyers are hardly known for being "woke".

It's more of a shift to "I don't wish to be an asshole by assuming things about you so I'd like a heads up on your preferred form of address."

Back in the Good Old Days when I was a law applicant, we still had people getting outraged by the shift from "Mrs" and "Miss" to the much broader "Ms", because a woman's married status was super important to know and part of our culture and a matter of fact and not preference and feminists were just rabid about it and threatening our traditions and *gasps, clutches pearls, swoons*. I mean, you get the idea.

Anyway in ten years the idea of not using preferred pronouns in one's email signature or resume will be equally weird. Grow with the times, my friend. Best advice I can give you, and I'm not being "woke", I'm telling you as some one who is now considered to be senior counsel who attends court every single week.

I think we can just agree to disagree. But anyway, let’s leave this thread to it’s intended purpose. 

[Rashabon]

22 minutes ago, CBay said:

The alternate set of criteria you speak of is available to anyone though. Not just a certain subsets of the population. 

Lol what? By definition it is only available to certain subsets of the population.

[CBay]

Just now, Rashabon said:

Lol what? By definition it is only available to certain subsets of the population.

Which subsets?

8 hours ago, StephenToast said:

Despite embodying it, I have not substantially and critically engaged with the issue of equity and diversity

 

3 hours ago, StephenToast said:

I did not say I embody DEI

 

[Patient0L]

3 hours ago, CBay said:

The only ones replying to it here with snarky jokes are those with pronouns in their can law forum bios. Others are simply noting the shift and discussing it. Not that I have an issue if someone had particular pronouns that they want used, but I have an issue with the *culture* of conformity that seeks to mock those who disagree with their necessity.

Clicking a radio button to choose a pronoun on one’s profile on an anonymous web forum is not the same thing as having an opinion about pronouns and whether the sharing of them is necessary.
 

I’m not sure if you’ve BEEN around academia lately (or government, tech, culture, ___insert white collar profession__ , etc) but everybody has their pronouns dangling all over the place because that’s what people do in 2022. Being cranky about it doesn’t make you an iconoclast. 
 

3 hours ago, Philosophy said:

 

I'm getting my popcorn ready!!

 

That better be vegan butter! 🍿💀

[StephenToast]

11 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

Lol what? By definition it is only available to certain subsets of the population.

I think @CBay is using "certain subsets of the population" as a shorthand for ethnic and sexual minorities and excludes age and socio-economic status from their definition of equity and diversity. 

UBC's working definition of diversity is a non-exhaustive list of "race, ethnicity, colour, ancestry, place of origin, political belief, religion, marital status, family status, physical disability, mental disability, sex, gender identity or expression, sexual orientation, age, class, and/or socio-economic situations"

 

The "issues of equity and diversity" are not the same thing as "Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion" as an established proper noun with a widely used abbreviation, especially not as defined by UBC itself. Anyway, if you want to argue that UBC's admission is excluding well-qualified candidates because they are not "woke enough," you need to give evidence to support that claim beyond that fact that they asked a question about EDI. Someone with a high LSAT score and GPA well-below the median getting rejected is not sufficient, especially when that applicant haven't even said anything about what they wrote for their personal statement with regards to EDI.

[CBay]

Just now, StephenToast said:

I think @CBay is using "certain subsets of the population" as a shorthand for ethnic and sexual minorities and excludes age and socio-economic status from their definition of equity and diversity. 

UBC's working definition of diversity is a non-exhaustive list of "race, ethnicity, colour, ancestry, place of origin, political belief, religion, marital status, family status, physical disability, mental disability, sex, gender identity or expression, sexual orientation, age, class, and/or socio-economic situations"

Correct. 
 

1 minute ago, StephenToast said:

Anyway, if you want to argue that UBC's admission is excluding well-qualified candidates because they are not "woke enough," you need to give evidence to support that claim beyond that fact that they asked a question about EDI. Someone with a high LSAT score and GPA well-below the median getting rejected is not sufficient, especially when that applicant haven't even said anything about what they wrote for their personal statement with regards to EDI.

Of course. And my original comment was made in jest, despite how seriously some have taken it here. 
 

UBC has auto-admit criteria, so, anyone with a certain index is getting in, regardless of personal views. 
 

My comment came after perusing through the profile intros of admitted students. I noticed a remarkable level of ideological conformity in certain ways. Much more so than in any other law school cohort I was admitted to, including Osgoode (which was the original context of the discussion).

The reasons for this, of course, are likely manifold. It could simply be a product of the location of the school, or BC politics as a whole. It could be self-selection, in that certain students are seeking out an institution with certain values. It could be a result of a specific push from admissions to get people friendly to certain ideas. Could be shifts in the culture more broadly. Likely a mix of all, and more. But it certainly is a notable. 
 

 

[Patient0L]

7 minutes ago, CBay said:

My comment came after perusing through the profile intros of admitted students. I noticed a remarkable level of ideological conformity in certain ways.

Are you speaking about the FB group?

[StephenToast]

11 minutes ago, CBay said:

Correct. 
 

Of course. And my original comment was made in jest, despite how seriously some have taken it here. 
 

UBC has auto-admit criteria, so, anyone with a certain index is getting in, regardless of personal views. 
 

My comment came after perusing through the profile intros of admitted students. I noticed a remarkable level of ideological conformity in certain ways. Much more so than in any other law school cohort I was admitted to, including Osgoode (which was the original context of the discussion).

The reasons for this, of course, are likely manifold. It could simply be a product of the location of the school, or BC politics as a whole. It could be self-selection, in that certain students are seeking out an institution with certain values. It could be a result of a specific push from admissions to get people friendly to certain ideas. Could be shifts in the culture more broadly. Likely a mix of all, and more. But it certainly is a notable. 
 

 

Maybe say you said that in jest right after people started taking it seriously? Otherwise you sound like a Schrodinger's Asshole.

 

As a current Osgoode student who did their undergrad at UBC, I anecdotally see the average ideological leaning of the student population, especially the younger part, are very similar. If that's going to bother you, you might as well go to UBC instead of Osgoode and save yourself 10k a year in tuition.

Edited August 7, 2022 by StephenToast

[CBay]

4 minutes ago, StephenToast said:

Maybe say you said that in jest right after people started taking it seriously? Otherwise you sound like a Schrodinger's Asshole.

 

As a current Osgoode student who did their undergrad at UBC, I anecdotally see the average ideological leaning of the student population, especially the younger part, are very similar. If that's going to bother you, you might as well go to UBC instead of Osgoode and save yourself 10k a year in tuition.

Haha, learned a new term today. 
 

But I appreciate your insight. I’ve noticed a big split based on age too. 25ish and under seem to be more uniform in that regard than above that age. Anecdotally of course. 
 

Realistically, the variation in student profiles, politically, will be a similar cross-section across Canadian law schools, with a slightly more notable left emphasis at places like UVic, Osgoode, and maybe UBC, than at places like U of T or Western. 

[Hegdis]

1 hour ago, CBay said:

I think we can just agree to disagree. But anyway, let’s leave this thread to it’s intended purpose. 

Where exactly do we disagree? This really is a court directive. There really was a big debate about Mrs vs Ms. It really is increasingly common in the professional world to include an indication of preferred pronouns. 

Not sure where there is a lot of room for disagreement in my post.  

[pastmidnight]

38 minutes ago, CBay said:

 

My comment came after perusing through the profile intros of admitted students. I noticed a remarkable level of ideological conformity in certain ways. Much more so than in any other law school cohort I was admitted to, including Osgoode (which was the original context of the discussion).

 

 

I know I said I wasn't going to engage with you anymore, but I really don't think it's a good idea for you to make comments like this about students that could be your classmates based on information they have shared in a private FB group with the aim of getting to know their peers. I don't say this to attack you, I would say this to anyone else posting here. You are opening yourself up to a situation where other 1Ls at Allard find these comments and are able to connect them to you if you do end up enrolling at UBC, as your views will likely make you stick out. 

If you've already decided you're turning down your UBC offer, maybe that's one thing, but if it's still on the table I'd tread very carefully so you don't start off on the wrong foot. 

[Hegdis]

Putting on my mod hat for a second, few general FYI things - 

1. we will remove stuff that was posted in a private group elsewhere or communicated over a private DM. 

2. admissions people read these forums. U of C is particularly active online but others are as well. 

3. part of our one hour edit window is to encourage people to post thoughtfully. We don’t have a delete button for a reason. So think twice before posting identifying information. 

[Rashabon]

1 hour ago, StephenToast said:

I think @CBay is using "certain subsets of the population" as a shorthand for ethnic and sexual minorities and excludes age and socio-economic status from their definition of equity and diversity. 

Yeah and that's why he's a dumbass. Because it doesn't count as long as it benefits him.

[CBay]

1 minute ago, Rashabon said:

Yeah and that's why he's a dumbass. Because it doesn't count as long as it benefits him.

You’re an idiot. 

[Rashabon]

8 minutes ago, CBay said:

You’re an idiot. 

Lol. You applied in a category that I could not have applied in. Your complaints are that other people might also have an alternative admissions route or alternative criteria. You're a whiny hypocrite, that's all.

[CBay]

4 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

Lol. You applied in a category that I could not have applied in. Your complaints are that other people might also have an alternative admissions route or alternative criteria. You're a whiny hypocrite, that's all.

And you’re a moron who can’t grasp the topic at hand. Not once have I made a comment about people getting in that shouldn’t have. 
 

My comments have been about school culture. Don’t try and turn this into me whining about affirmative action. It isn’t. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by CBay
Typo

[Rashabon]

You’re gonna struggle in law school wherever you go my man. Your reading comprehension and ability to follow logical thought is sub par. Best of luck! I’ll be rooting against you.

[Electricity]

Queen’s recently replaced Business Associations with “Drag Queen Story Hour”, so definitely be sure to stay away from us too @CBay.

[CBay]

17 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

Your complaints are that other people might also have an alternative admissions route or alternative criteria.

Show me where I said this. I’ll wait. 

 

11 minutes ago, Rashabon said:

You’re gonna struggle in law school wherever you go my man. Your reading comprehension and ability to follow logical thought is sub par. Best of luck! I’ll be rooting against you.

The projection here is too real. See above. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by CBay
Clarity.

[Rashabon]

This entire thread started because you were diagnosing UBC as overly “woke” whatever you purport to mean by that and complaining about the impact of that on admissions. There’s barely any subtext to read into here.

[CBay]

1 minute ago, Rashabon said:

This entire thread started because you were diagnosing UBC as overly “woke” whatever you purport to mean by that and complaining about the impact of that on admissions. There’s barely any subtext to read into here.

Someone made a comment how some people with insane stats weren’t getting in, and I made a quip about it based on known changes in admissions criteria. Get over it. I don’t even know why you’re still participating in this thread. 

[Doot Universary]

I have nothing productive to add, but I just wanted to quickly chime in and say that this is the most entertaining thread I’ve seen on here since that mature applicant said they were going to be the next president of the Philippines after completing the Dual JD program at Windsor.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Doot Universary
Edited my post to make it gender neutral because I’m “woke”

[GoBigOrGoHome]

If you think that UBC is seeking “woke”, you haven’t learned about UVIC. 
 

UBC seems to have this superficial focus on EDI. Knowing that they need to consider it because it is the thumb that everyone is doing without really digging deeper into what inclusion really means. UVIC seems to be the school that knows that they need to focus on EDI, are trying to learn about it, they aren’t quite there yet but their efforts are genuine and not performative. 

 

UVIC’s student body seems more “woke” than UBC - but that is second hand knowledge. I have no idea. 
 

anyways - entertaining thread

[CBay]

19 minutes ago, Doot Universary said:

I have nothing productive to add, but I just wanted to quickly chime in and say that this is the most entertaining thread I’ve seen on here since that mature applicant said they were going to be the next president of the Philippines after completing the Dual JD program at Windsor.

Haha, man, now I just feel bad for you guys. Happy to spice up this forum for you all. Just say the word. 😆

 

11 minutes ago, GoBigOrGoHome said:

UBC seems to have this superficial focus on EDI. Knowing that they need to consider it because it is the thumb that everyone is doing without really digging deeper into what inclusion really means. UVIC seems to be the school that knows that they need to focus on EDI, are trying to learn about it, they aren’t quite there yet but their efforts are genuine and not performative. 

 

UVIC’s student body seems more “woke” than UBC - but that is second hand knowledge. I have no idea. 

I'd wondered about that, especially since I've heard from plenty of folks that UBC has a real corporate focus, which doesn't seem to jive with its new surface persona.

And yeah, I've heard similar things from friends at UVic and from a couple working lawyers. I believe the last advice I got regarding UVic law was from a Victoria area lawyer who said "it's fluffy, just a bunch of tree huggers, don't go there."

No idea how true that is. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by CBay
wording

[Patient0L]

7 hours ago, Doot Universary said:

I have nothing productive to add, but I just wanted to quickly chime in and say that this is the most entertaining thread I’ve seen on here since that mature applicant said they were going to be the next president of the Philippines after completing the Dual JD program at Windsor.

Philippines dude (in the gender neutral sense of the word) doesn’t get enough credit in that the Philippines is sorely in need of a new president. I really hope the Dual JD helps them achieve their goal (assuming they aren’t a despot).
 

7 hours ago, GoBigOrGoHome said:

 

If you think that UBC is seeking “woke”, you haven’t learned about UVIC. 

 

Having been a member of both FB groups I was thinking the same thing. Without getting too much into private FB info, IIRC, the mods of UVic group explicitly asked for pronouns and land acknowledgments to be included in intros.
 

If boilerplate inclusionary language c. 2022 counts as “woke,” that is…
 

7 hours ago, CBay said:

I believe the last advice I got regarding UVic law was from a Victoria area lawyer who said "it's fluffy, just a bunch of tree huggers, don't go there."

No idea how true that is.

They were located in a Green Party (provincial) riding for quite a few years. I imagine quite a few people in that area love trees.