How’s your articling going

[Ahhhh]

I’m articling at a Toronto business law firm, and it’s now the third month into articling. It’s been generally quite slow for me, and I am worried about where to find more work. My firm has a student listserv, but most work do not come from that.
 

I am wondering how everyone else’s articling experience has been so far. Has it been slow or busy at your firm? How do you get most of your work?

[MapleLeafs]

Reach out to your student coordinator and ask for work or reach out to partners/associates whose work you're interested in. 

[boyo]

I am also at a Toronto corp firm and gotta say I feel like I'm getting killed. It's sustainable but definitely tiring. The average day is about 9-10 hours docketed on billable matters. Not sure if it's just a few crazy files but I'm guessing not since most seem to be busy as well.

Is your firm in the 200 + lawyers range or lower? Could be talking about wildly different experiences depending.

[Conge]

14 hours ago, Ohoh said:

I’m articling at a Toronto business law firm, and it’s now the third month into articling. It’s been generally quite slow for me, and I am worried about where to find more work. My firm has a student listserv, but most work do not come from that.
 

I am wondering how everyone else’s articling experience has been so far. Has it been slow or busy at your firm? How do you get most of your work?

Is your firm slow right? If so, look for other opportunities to add value - case law/legislative updates, etc.

If it's just you that is slow, get out and talk to people and drum up some business for yourself within the firm. 

[Ahhhh]

On 10/5/2022 at 8:16 AM, boyo said:

I am also at a Toronto corp firm and gotta say I feel like I'm getting killed. It's sustainable but definitely tiring. The average day is about 9-10 hours docketed on billable matters. Not sure if it's just a few crazy files but I'm guessing not since most seem to be busy as well.

Is your firm in the 200 + lawyers range or lower? Could be talking about wildly different experiences depending.

What type of corporate files are you working on? General commercial, transactional, etc? Just to get a sense of the general market.

 

It’s in the 200 + range …

[Moodyfufu]

If you are at a large full-service firm, you need to push yourself more, regardless of economic circumstances. Most business practice groups do not rely on a list serv, as they would rather choose who they work with instead of the students choosing them. 

[Ahhhh]

1 hour ago, Moodyfufu said:

If you are at a large full-service firm, you need to push yourself more, regardless of economic circumstances. Most business practice groups do not rely on a list serv, as they would rather choose who they work with instead of the students choosing them. 

That’s a fair point! Thanks for pointing that out!

On 10/5/2022 at 8:36 AM, Conge said:

Is your firm slow right? If so, look for other opportunities to add value - case law/legislative updates, etc.

If it's just you that is slow, get out and talk to people and drum up some business for yourself within the firm. 

Thanks for your suggestions! I’ve heard it’s been slow but I don’t have the full picture. 

[boyo]

16 hours ago, Ohoh said:

What type of corporate files are you working on? General commercial, transactional, etc? Just to get a sense of the general market.

 

It’s in the 200 + range …

I'm in a corporate rotation. My two busiest files are a capital markets file and a public m&a. Otherwise I have a fund formation file (that's a bit slow) and a few smaller files (mostly related to corp gov). On top I have a bunch of non-billables (e.g., research for various reports).

All of my files came from me reaching out to lawyers doing work in areas that I want. Either shooting them an email or asking for a coffee.

[99problems]

I'm doing my articling in a boutique firm in a practice field that I enjoy. At first, it was a bit slow. But then, I was busy for some time. But yet again, things have been painfully slow for me. I have reached out to basically all partners: some say they want to give me bigger projects; some say they are in the middle of some deals and it is not easy to get me up to speed, etc. For the past last week, I have sent so many emails, announcing my capacity, but virtually got nothing. It is so frustrating that I want to apply to other firms after my articlings, or maybe it's just the nature of the thing.

Once, I told my principal that I am totally free. And he gave me a directors' resolution to draft...

Edited October 7, 2022 by 99problems

[Ahhhh]

On 10/7/2022 at 10:52 AM, boyo said:

I'm in a corporate rotation. My two busiest files are a capital markets file and a public m&a. Otherwise I have a fund formation file (that's a bit slow) and a few smaller files (mostly related to corp gov). On top I have a bunch of non-billables (e.g., research for various reports).

All of my files came from me reaching out to lawyers doing work in areas that I want. Either shooting them an email or asking for a coffee.

That sounds a lot and very interesting! Thanks so much for sharing!

On 10/7/2022 at 3:06 PM, 99problems said:

I'm doing my articling in a boutique firm in a practice field that I enjoy. At first, it was a bit slow. But then, I was busy for some time. But yet again, things have been painfully slow for me. I have reached out to basically all partners: some say they want to give me bigger projects; some say they are in the middle of some deals and it is not easy to get me up to speed, etc. For the past last week, I have sent so many emails, announcing my capacity, but virtually got nothing. It is so frustrating that I want to apply to other firms after my articlings, or maybe it's just the nature of the thing.

Once, I told my principal that I am totally free. And he gave me a directors' resolution to draft...

I feel you. I’m in a similar boat. My principal basically told me that it’s been slow …

[boyo]

On 10/7/2022 at 3:06 PM, 99problems said:

And he gave me a directors' resolution to draft...

lol what's wrong with drafting a resolution? Certainly better than putting together signatures packages or making minor edits to a document you've never seen before.

[99problems]

5 hours ago, boyo said:

lol what's wrong with drafting a resolution?

Nothing wrong with drafting a resolution. But it only takes like 10 minutes. And what am I supposed to do after? email him again, asking the very same thing I had asked 15 minutes ago.

5 hours ago, boyo said:

Certainly better than putting together signatures packages or making minor edits to a document you've never seen before.

this sucks too

[Twenty]

Have been articling in family law out west for ~2 months now. Overall I'm satisfied with my articling experience. Learning a lot every week doing research memos, drafting documents, and very occasionally doing minor court appearances.

In terms of workload, I usually bill between 4-5 hours a day, with the occasional 6/7. Most of the time, my working hours are a 9-5. However, occasionally, I bring an assignment home when it's something that needs to be done by the next day.

I think a lot of the stress associated with family law comes from dealing with clients, which I more or less avoid because I'm still a student. Moreover, I was told that December would be extremely busy, so I should be prepared for that. 

There have been a few instances and learning curves where I feel like I screwed up big time. At the same time,there have also been highlights where I was so immersed in learning the law and felt excited about the work I do. All in all, I'm still cautiously optimistic!

Edited October 11, 2022 by Twenty

[Ahhhh]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:25 PM, Twenty said:

Have been articling in family law out west for ~2 months now. Overall I'm satisfied with my articling experience. Learning a lot every week doing research memos, drafting documents, and very occasionally doing minor court appearances.

In terms of workload, I usually bill between 4-5 hours a day, with the occasional 6/7. Most of the time, my working hours are a 9-5. However, occasionally, I bring an assignment home when it's something that needs to be done by the next day.

I think a lot of the stress associated with family law comes from dealing with clients, which I more or less avoid because I'm still a student. Moreover, I was told that December would be extremely busy, so I should be prepared for that. 

There have been a few instances and learning curves where I feel like I screwed up big time. At the same time,there have also been highlights where I was so immersed in learning the law and felt excited about the work I do. All in all, I'm still cautiously optimistic!

This sounds great experience especially your hours!

[Twenty]

1 hour ago, Ohoh said:

This sounds great experience especially your hours!

Yeah, my hours are relatively great. Very fortunate in that front. Check back in with me 10 months from now though lol 

[boyo]

16 hours ago, Ohoh said:

This sounds great experience especially your hours!

On 10/10/2022 at 9:25 PM, Twenty said:

Have been articling in family law out west for ~2 months now. Overall I'm satisfied with my articling experience. Learning a lot every week doing research memos, drafting documents, and very occasionally doing minor court appearances.

In terms of workload, I usually bill between 4-5 hours a day, with the occasional 6/7. Most of the time, my working hours are a 9-5. However, occasionally, I bring an assignment home when it's something that needs to be done by the next day.

I think a lot of the stress associated with family law comes from dealing with clients, which I more or less avoid because I'm still a student. Moreover, I was told that December would be extremely busy, so I should be prepared for that. 

There have been a few instances and learning curves where I feel like I screwed up big time. At the same time,there have also been highlights where I was so immersed in learning the law and felt excited about the work I do. All in all, I'm still cautiously optimistic!

cries in biglaw

[Garfield]

Family law boutique, billing 8-9 hours per day and I miss my friends and my cat

[Twenty]

5 hours ago, boyo said:

cries in biglaw

For the record, at the start of my articles, I used to workout during the middle of the day in addition to getting lunch after (around 1-1.5 hours in total). Now, because work is consistently being assigned, I've shortend my breaks to 30-60 minute lunches and work out after leaving the office. The tragedy is that I no longer get to see my gym crush. 😫

I miss my gym crush 😢  

[BlushAndTheBar]

Articling in my dream job, my supervisor is the best supervisor i've ever had (and probably will have) and the work is very interesting. I have 0 complaints, feels like an actual dream. Crossing my fingers and toes that I get hired back and that nothing goes wrong until the placement is over lol 

[Ramesses]

3 hours ago, Twenty said:

For the record, at the start of my articles, I used to workout during the middle of the day in addition to getting lunch after (around 1-1.5 hours in total). Now, because work is consistently being assigned, I've shortend my breaks to 30-60 minute lunches and work out after leaving the office. The tragedy is that I no longer get to see my gym crush. 😫

I miss my gym crush 😢  

why not workout then eat lunch at your desk while you work?

2 hours ago, BlushAndTheBar said:

Articling in my dream job, my supervisor is the best supervisor i've ever had (and probably will have) and the work is very interesting. I have 0 complaints, feels like an actual dream. Crossing my fingers and toes that I get hired back and that nothing goes wrong until the placement is over lol 

that sounds amazing! wow!

[notnotadog]

I'm clerking for articling. It rocks - I do mostly crim work, which I love, watch great (and some not-so-great advocacy) often, and the work is fulfilling. It's definitely beyond 9-5, but not crushingly so. I can make plans on weeknights and trust that I'll be able to stick to them. 

[Twenty]

@Ramesses it's because I can't multi-task very well. I would just end up eating in my office unable to do any work, which is in effect would be the same thing as working out and eating lunch outside the office.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Twenty

[Garfield]

I’m really into family law but these hours are soul crushing and they’re not even that bad relative to what I’m hearing from my big law friends. I feel like I could work longish hours if I were doing something less intellectually intensive like some kinds of doc review. But to do hours and hours of drafting facta under pressure, not to mention having it dropped on you not too long in advance of when it’s due (meaning that I have limited time to get my head into the file, which is even worse when there is a massive litigation history, then I have to piece all the shit together), just kicks my ass day in and day out.
 

The heavy litigation dimension of practising in family law is something I didn’t appreciate and quite frankly it turns me off. It’s the stress of the tight deadlines that can do a number. I’m not sure if there is a staffing issue at my firm. (I am suspecting we are in need of associates in the 3+ range, which is supposedly not uncommon among fam law firms.) I get that these months are busy for family law and I’m articling so I will bear the brunt of it but fuck.

Whatever I probably just miss my cat. 

Y’all if u have a 9-5 ur living the life.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Garfield

[coolsweetgirl_4u]

Horror! I work with solo practitioner in immigration law and I was threatened with termination because I spent time doing research A instead of research B. I am being informed that if I make another mistake, I will be terminated. When I mentioned the agreement, I got yelled and was told that I am 'crossing the line'. This was one time mistake so I am shocked at the behaviour.

I having meeting today with my principal in the afternoon so we will see where this goes. 

[OntheVerge]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:29 AM, coolsweetgirl_4u said:

Horror! I work with solo practitioner in immigration law and I was threatened with termination because I spent time doing research A instead of research B. I am being informed that if I make another mistake, I will be terminated. When I mentioned the agreement, I got yelled and was told that I am 'crossing the line'. This was one time mistake so I am shocked at the behaviour.

I having meeting today with my principal in the afternoon so we will see where this goes. 

That's terrible! Mistakes happen (if you can consider researching the wrong thing a "mistake" per se). Articling is supposed to be an environment where you learn from mistakes under the supervision of your principal, not where the expectation is that you *never* make a mistake. And certainly not where you get threatened to have your articling position terminated if you mess up. Hopefully the lawyer was having a bad day - not that a bad day excuses acting like that - and apologized profusely at the meeting.

I would start taking notes - what the lawyer tells you, work that is assigned, the lawyer's reactions to "mistakes" and any threats going forward. I had a poor articling experience myself and this was something I did to 1) could refer to notes to lawyer when they said I did something wrong or they told me something else than what they had said, and 2) if I had to get the LSO involved, I had a record. Though honestly, if it escalates to the point that you need to take notes, it might be time to consider looking for articling elsewhere, if possible.