Chance me!

[llssspp]

Hi, 

 

I completed my undergraduate degree in Psychology from Ryerson (3.2 CGPA, final two years 3.8 GPA). Then, I took a year off and did a Master in Business (MMgt) with a 3.8 CGPA. I have yet to write the LSAT (first time) but hope to score 168-172. What do you think my chances are regarding my GPA of getting into a law school in Ontario? 

[Chewy]

Your GPA is at a point where any prediction is useless until you have written the LSAT. A lot of people hope to score in the 168-172 range, most don't. Have you done any practice tests under timed settings?

[Future Lawyer]

Let me give you a straight fact. Your GPA is fine. I mean I have seen people with 2.90+ get admitted. But what you need to work on is your LSAT and try to score high. That is what law school care most and weigh more. I still think you can get in some law school in Ontario with the score in 160s. Good luck  

[Naj]

42 minutes ago, Future Lawyer said:

Let me give you a straight fact. 

*grabs popcorn*

[Diplock]

38 minutes ago, Future Lawyer said:

Let me give you a straight fact. Your GPA is fine. I mean I have seen people with 2.90+ get admitted. But what you need to work on is your LSAT and try to score high. That is what law school care most and weigh more. I still think you can get in some law school in Ontario with the score in 160s. Good luck  

Sigh. It's stuff like this that kept me looking at and replying to "chances" threads long after my own experiences as an applicant and in law school were so dated I was out of touch. I mean, I know this is dumb, unrealistic, and irresponsible advice. I just don't know how to replace it with better information.

Can whoever does that now, you know, show up and do it? Please and thank you.

[llssspp]

1 hour ago, Future Lawyer said:

Let me give you a straight fact. Your GPA is fine. I mean I have seen people with 2.90+ get admitted. But what you need to work on is your LSAT and try to score high. That is what law school care most and weigh more. I still think you can get in some law school in Ontario with the score in 160s. Good luck  

Thank-you! I'm going to start LSAT prep. I was worried about my CGPA.

2 hours ago, Chewy said:

Your GPA is at a point where any prediction is useless until you have written the LSAT. A lot of people hope to score in the 168-172 range, most don't. Have you done any practice tests under timed settings?

 

Just now, llssspp said:

Thank-you! I'm going to start LSAT prep. I was worried about my CGPA.

I did a diagnostic LSAT and plan on enrolling in the Princeton Review 165 plus course. 

[Naj]

2 hours ago, llssspp said:

Thank-you! I'm going to start LSAT prep. I was worried about my CGPA.

You should be worried about a 3.2 CGPA. The other guy is talking nonsense. The consensus seems to be that Canadian law schools do not place more weight on an LSAT score (GPA being equally important, if not slightly more important).  Obviously then, if you want to be admitted into law school you should be aiming to achieve the highest LSAT score you possibly can, preferably in the high 160s+.

However, you don't just want to go to law school, you also want to work in corporate/big law, yes? I've inferred this from your recent posts. Of course, now we're also talking about getting into the "better" Canadian law schools. I'm not a law student nor a lawyer, so my knowledge on this is limited, but it seems to be the case that better law schools = better chance at landing big law positions and those better law schools (Osgood, U of T...) generally require a GPA higher than 3.2.

Do not underestimate the LSAT, getting a high 160s-170s+ score is likely going to take a significant amount of time and effort in studying. There's the question of whether you're even able to commit that amount of time and effort - and this is particularly pertinent because you're a post-grad already working so halting what you are currently doing to pursue LSAT studies (and an improbable LSAT score) bears a much higher cost, in addition to other career implications, that the typical undergraduate student studying and taking the LSAT during his 3rd/4th academic year isn't burdened with. 

You are also concerned about being too old for big law (I don't know if this is a legitimate concern or not, someone with some experience is going to have to chime in and help you with that). Some people have improved their LSAT scores significantly (high 150s to near 170) but those circumstances usually involve studying for around 12 months, so of course you must be prepared for the possibility that you start law school in Sept 2025 as opposed to 2024, in which your issue with age (if it is a legitimate issue at all) is now compounded. 

Can you begin to see how troubling it is to try and give you advice when no one really knows what your current situation is or how capable you are in achieving a near 170 LSAT score? Moreover, the possibly problematic extent of your desire to solely work in big-law vs other areas of legal practice.

Do you want to go to law school regardless of whether you end up working at big law? If so, go do the LSAT then come back and it will be easier to evaluate your chances at each law school, and further, big law. 

The one thing anyone will tell you for certain is that if you want to go to law school just to work in big-law, then you're statistically setting yourself up for failure, especially since you don't already have a track record of above average academic performance (which you don't with a 3.2).

Edited January 28, 2023 by Naj

[llssspp]

1 hour ago, Naj said:

You should be worried about a 3.2 CGPA. The other guy is talking nonsense. The consensus seems to be that Canadian law schools do not place more weight on an LSAT score (GPA being equally important, if not slightly more important).  Obviously then, if you want to be admitted into law school you should be aiming to achieve the highest LSAT score you possibly can, preferably in the high 160s+.

However, you don't just want to go to law school, you also want to work in corporate/big law, yes? I've inferred this from your recent posts. Of course, now we're also talking about getting into the "better" Canadian law schools. I'm not a law student nor a lawyer, so my knowledge on this is limited, but it seems to be the case that better law schools = better chance at landing big law positions and those better law schools (Osgood, U of T...) generally require a GPA higher than 3.2.

Do not underestimate the LSAT, getting a high 160s-170s+ score is likely going to take a significant amount of time and effort in studying. There's the question of whether you're even able to commit that amount of time and effort - and this is particularly pertinent because you're a post-grad already working so halting what you are currently doing to pursue LSAT studies (and an improbable LSAT score) bears a much higher cost, in addition to other career implications, that the typical undergraduate student studying and taking the LSAT during his 3rd/4th academic year isn't burdened with. 

You are also concerned about being too old for big law (I don't know if this is a legitimate concern or not, someone with some experience is going to have to chime in and help you with that). Some people have improved their LSAT scores significantly (high 150s to near 170) but those circumstances usually involve studying for around 12 months, so of course you must be prepared for the possibility that you start law school in Sept 2025 as opposed to 2024, in which your issue with age (if it is a legitimate issue at all) is now compounded. 

Can you begin to see how troubling it is to try and give you advice when no one really knows what your current situation is or how capable you are in achieving a near 170 LSAT score? Moreover, the possibly problematic extent of your desire to solely work in big-law vs other areas of legal practice.

Do you want to go to law school regardless of whether you end up working at big law? If so, go do the LSAT then come back and it will be easier to evaluate your chances at each law school, and further, big law. 

The one thing anyone will tell you for certain is that if you want to go to law school just to work in big-law, then you're statistically setting yourself up for failure, especially since you don't already have a track record of above average academic performance (which you don't with a 3.2).

Thank you for your response. I know people who got into UofA law school with a similar GPA and 162 LSAT scores. That's why I was hopeful though my CGPA is not competitive. I agree with everything you said. 

[llssspp]

5 minutes ago, llssspp said:

Thank you for your response. I know people who got into UofA law school with a similar GPA and 162 LSAT scores. That's why I was hopeful though my CGPA is not competitive. I agree with everything you said. 

I would have to get a very high LSAT score and submit a great personal statement. Even then it's a huge gamble. 

[Naj]

3 minutes ago, llssspp said:

I would have to get a very high LSAT score and submit a great personal statement. Even then it's a huge gamble. 

You should try and get the best possible LSAT score you can, without sabotaging other aspects of your life, and then apply with whatever that score happens to be. Its not impossible, and I wouldn't really call it a gamble either, just manage your expectations. Stay hopeful and good luck my friend. 

[Ethereum Maxi]

5 hours ago, Future Lawyer said:

Let me give you a straight fact. Your GPA is fine. I mean I have seen people with 2.90+ get admitted. But what you need to work on is your LSAT and try to score high. That is what law school care most and weigh more. I still think you can get in some law school in Ontario with the score in 160s. Good luck  

I'm not sure if this is true. Many law schools seem to indicate that the GPA & LSAT are weighed equally. As far as I'm concerned Ontario schools may even slightly favour GPA more than the LSAT score. I know this is probably the case with UofT because it literally says on their website that historically, GPA was a better indicator of a prospective students' success in law school, indicating that they are leaning heavier towards an applicants GPA nowadays. 

[llssspp]

1 hour ago, Naj said:

You should try and get the best possible LSAT score you can, without sabotaging other aspects of your life, and then apply with whatever that score happens to be. Its not impossible, and I wouldn't really call it a gamble either, just manage your expectations. Stay hopeful and good luck my friend. 

Thank you for the good luck! 

[llssspp]

On 1/28/2023 at 2:18 PM, Chewy said:

Your GPA is at a point where any prediction is useless until you have written the LSAT. A lot of people hope to score in the 168-172 range, most don't. Have you done any practice tests under timed settings?

I am going to keep preparing and will write the LSAT in June.

Edited January 29, 2023 by llssspp