Question about Vacation Standards in Law

[Windsorite5493]

Hello everyone, 

I am hoping to get insight into how vacation is normally dealt with in the law firm environment. I started a new position a few months ago ('22 call), and am now being told the standard is for you to have 0 days vacation for the first 12 months, with each day taken during the first year being considered a -1 for the following years vacation days.

I agreed to three weeks vacation per year thinking that I would be able to take 15 days vacation (after my probationary period of course, and not all together, but within the first 12 month timeframe). I am now being told the standard for law firms is to follow the legislation, which does not provide for vacation to be accrued monthly, but rather the full time frame (ie. 15 days) is earned after the year and any days I take now are an advance on the following year. Meaning if I take 5 days off this year, I am at -5, and my vacation days would start at 10 next year rather than 15.

Is this the norm or reasonable in law? I have had many office jobs and worked at multiple firms but have never encountered this. I do understand it is the law per the Employment standard minimums, but do any law firms use this in practice?  

 

[Conge]

The standard I'm used to is: if you're hitting billing targets, you can take as much vacation time as you want. 

If you're taking a lot of time off and not hitting targets, or partners don't feel like you're available for work, then there might be a conversation about what's appropriate. 

[Cool_name]

You guys get vacations? 

 

jk
 

I’m used to the standard Conge mentioned, as long as you hit your target, they don’t care. I have no clue what my contract provides for as an actual vacation allotment. 
 

That said, I think taking a vacation right when starting would be bad form.

[scooter]

17 hours ago, Windsorite5493 said:

Meaning if I take 5 days off this year, I am at -5, and my vacation days would start at 10 next year rather than 15.

If you can go negative, then just take 15 every year and run at a constant deficit 😂

[BlockedQuebecois]

2 hours ago, scooter said:

If you can go negative, then just take 15 every year and run at a constant deficit 😂

In theory, that would come back to haunt you on your final paycheque, which would also, in theory, be during your highest earning years. 

[RC51]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:11 AM, Conge said:

The standard I'm used to is: if you're hitting billing targets, you can take as much vacation time as you want. 

If you're taking a lot of time off and not hitting targets, or partners don't feel like you're available for work, then there might be a conversation about what's appropriate. 

So how many days do you take off per year? 

[Cool_name]

1 hour ago, RC51 said:

So how many days do you take off per year? 

I’ve taken around 10, depending on work matters will likely be just shy of 15 before the new year

Edited November 27, 2023 by Cool_name

[Dinsdale]

Yes, the entire question by OP indicates an "employee mentality", which is exactly what firm management is not looking for.  I agree with the above.  Hit your target and take as much time as you like, within reason.  Fall short and be prepared to answer questions.

[Conge]

2 hours ago, RC51 said:

So how many days do you take off per year? 

Earlier in my career? Very little. Like, barely taking time off during Christmas. There was a year I took one day off for the holidays. I was in the office writing a brief on Boxing Day.

Now? Four weeks every year, with a good stretch of time off during the summer. (E.g., 10 straight business days away from the office, only available by cell if you call me.)

[Jaggers]

I always took my full four weeks, though I can't say I ever tracked it rigourously to make sure it was 20 days and not 18 or 22 or whatever.

[N. Mink]

On 8/30/2023 at 5:11 AM, Conge said:

The standard I'm used to is: if you're hitting billing targets, you can take as much vacation time as you want. 

If you're taking a lot of time off and not hitting targets, or partners don't feel like you're available for work, then there might be a conversation about what's appropriate. 

This has been my experience as well. If you manage your calendar (and clients/expectations), it should not be an issue (after you are a few years in). 
 
I’ve taken about 8 weeks. Billables were on-point, though. 

[PzabbytheLawyer]

The worst is having to cancel a vacation because of work. It happens.

[legallyblond23]

for what it's worth, what the firm is proposing is not legal and not compliant with employment standards requirements. While there is a period of time required to "earn" vacation days it is typically 3 months.

[Psychometronic]

I avoid taking more than 2 weeks off at a time. I block my time off in advance and try to get urgent stuff out of the way before leaving. I have urgent matters redirected to someone else in my office during my time off. Thankfully, very few things are so urgent in my practice that they can't wait 2 weeks. 

[Jaggers]

1 hour ago, legallyblond23 said:

for what it's worth, what the firm is proposing is not legal and not compliant with employment standards requirements. While there is a period of time required to "earn" vacation days it is typically 3 months.

In Ontario, the minimum standard is that you earn your entitlement after completing the year of service, and the employer has to let you take it in the first ten months of the following year. But every province differs in the details.

[canuckfanatic]

3 hours ago, legallyblond23 said:

for what it's worth, what the firm is proposing is not legal and not compliant with employment standards requirements

In BC at least, the Employment Standards Act does not apply to lawyers or articling students.

3 hours ago, legallyblond23 said:

While there is a period of time required to "earn" vacation days it is typically 3 months

In BC, vacation days are earned in the first 12 months, and have to be used in the following 12 months. If used in the first 12 month period, the employer can deduct those days from the following 12 month period as long as they tell the employee ahead of time. 

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/employment-business/employment-standards-advice/employment-standards/time-off/vacation#time

Edited December 20, 2023 by canuckfanatic

[canuckfanatic]

To answer OP's question - I took no more than 2 weeks off per year while in private practice as a junior associate. I took a lot of short vacations by extending long weekends. 

Now that I'm in-house, I anticipate taking off around 6 weeks in 2024.