No Offers Today (2L Recruit 2023)

[uoftearsalumna]

Starting the pack off I guess... I had 3 in firms (2 full service and 1 boutique that doesn’t do OCIs), made it far with all, only not to receive a call today. Not sure what happened. I had great interviews with all (some better than others give or take, some conveyed more interest than others). I first choiced a firm and still didn’t get a call. All that to say, as many people are in this position, what comes next and how do we find it? Our law schools (at least mine) do a really bad job of advising post-recruit, since the focus tends to be all on the 2L recruit. Just trying to process what happened today, but know I need to keep looking. I would consider in house positions, or other full service, if any. Thanks for any insights!

Edited November 9, 2023 by uoftearsalumna

[ls.ca]

29 minutes ago, uoftearsalumna said:

All that to say, as many people are in this position, what comes next and how do we find it?

 

The 11-Step Macro Plan:

1. Punch a pillow or five. Take a breath. Get a nice bottle of wine. Draw a nice bath. Soak and watch a comfort show. Still get poor sleep but with less muscle soreness. 
2. Take a few weeks to feel numb in classes. Then panic when you feel the stress of performing well on exams as you ponder their necessity for articling recruit, or *gasp* open recruitment. 
3. Do fine on exams. Have a Christmas where you're starting to feel better, until you stress about telling friends and family that were in on the OCI process that your struck out. 
4. Make out with your partner, or a stranger, on New Years eve. Resolve to come back with a vengeance. 
5. Crush second term. Cold call firms (even those who you might have previously applied to). Advocate for yourself as you network in the cold-call environment. 
6. Get a lot of no replies, many rejections, a few responses of mid to poor interest, and a handful of possible routes. 
7. Lock into a possible route. Bust your ass. Decide to continue with them or begin the 2-3 year process of a reasonable lateral. 
8. Pay off law school debts, continue with life as a new call. 
9. Get into 5 years of doing law. Realize that your colleagues at Sister Firms are either people who have no life, hate themselves, are in a first divorce, and cannot escape their jobs as they are trapped in the lifestyle creep.
10. Wake up, realize that it was silly that you punched the pillow five years ago. Take a breath. Get a nice bottle of wine. Draw a bath. Relax.
11. Realize there is more to life than recruit. Realize there's more to life than the law. 

[Lawhopeful123]

4 minutes ago, ls.ca said:

 

The 11-Step Macro Plan:

1. Punch a pillow or five. Take a breath. Get a nice bottle of wine. Draw a nice bath. Soak and watch a comfort show. Still get poor sleep but with less muscle soreness. 
2. Take a few weeks to feel numb in classes. Then panic when you feel the stress of performing well on exams as you ponder their necessity for articling recruit, or *gasp* open recruitment. 
3. Do fine on exams. Have a Christmas where you're starting to feel better, until you stress about telling friends and family that were in on the OCI process that your struck out. 
4. Make out with your partner, or a stranger, on New Years eve. Resolve to come back with a vengeance. 
5. Crush second term. Cold call firms (even those who you might have previously applied to). Advocate for yourself as you network in the cold-call environment. 
6. Get a lot of no replies, many rejections, a few responses of mid to poor interest, and a handful of possible routes. 
7. Lock into a possible route. Bust your ass. Decide to continue with them or begin the 2-3 year process of a reasonable lateral. 
8. Pay off law school debts, continue with life as a new call. 
9. Get into 5 years of doing law. Realize that your colleagues at Sister Firms are either people who have no life, hate themselves, are in a first divorce, and cannot escape their jobs as they are trapped in the lifestyle creep.
10. Wake up, realize that it was silly that you punched the pillow five years ago. Take a breath. Get a nice bottle of wine. Draw a bath. Relax.
11. Realize there is more to life than recruit. Realize there's more to life than the law. 

"Get into 5 years of doing law. Realize that your colleagues at Sister Firms are either people who have no life, hate themselves, are in a first divorce, and cannot escape their jobs as they are trapped in the lifestyle creep" - love this

[LMP]

44 minutes ago, uoftearsalumna said:

Starting the pack off I guess... I had 3 in firms (2 full service and 1 boutique that doesn’t do OCIs), made it far with all, only not to receive a call today. Not sure what happened. I had great interviews with all (some better than others give or take, some conveyed more interest than others). I first choiced a firm and still didn’t get a call. All that to say, as many people are in this position, what comes next and how do we find it? Our law schools (at least mine) do a really bad job of advising post-recruit, since the focus tends to be all on the 2L recruit. Just trying to process what happened today, but know I need to keep looking. I would consider in house positions, or other full service, if any. Thanks for any insights!

There's a good post somewhere in the forum that lists the firms/organizations that hire post recruit. 

Off the top of my head I can think of 6 or 7, some of which have already opened (I think Singleton and Blaney's probably have). 

There will also be some midsized places and government ministries/agencies that do post recurit hiring. If you're determined to land at a decent sized firm this summer, I would reccomend not taking your foot off the gas. 

I know it sucks but the entire process, both the formal recurit and what comes after, are tests of reliance.

[2easy]

12 minutes ago, ls.ca said:

 

The 11-Step Macro Plan:

1. Punch a pillow or five. Take a breath. Get a nice bottle of wine. Draw a nice bath. Soak and watch a comfort show. Still get poor sleep but with less muscle soreness. 
2. Take a few weeks to feel numb in classes. Then panic when you feel the stress of performing well on exams as you ponder their necessity for articling recruit, or *gasp* open recruitment. 
3. Do fine on exams. Have a Christmas where you're starting to feel better, until you stress about telling friends and family that were in on the OCI process that your struck out. 
4. Make out with your partner, or a stranger, on New Years eve. Resolve to come back with a vengeance. 
5. Crush second term. Cold call firms (even those who you might have previously applied to). Advocate for yourself as you network in the cold-call environment. 
6. Get a lot of no replies, many rejections, a few responses of mid to poor interest, and a handful of possible routes. 
7. Lock into a possible route. Bust your ass. Decide to continue with them or begin the 2-3 year process of a reasonable lateral. 
8. Pay off law school debts, continue with life as a new call. 
9. Get into 5 years of doing law. Realize that your colleagues at Sister Firms are either people who have no life, hate themselves, are in a first divorce, and cannot escape their jobs as they are trapped in the lifestyle creep.
10. Wake up, realize that it was silly that you punched the pillow five years ago. Take a breath. Get a nice bottle of wine. Draw a bath. Relax.
11. Realize there is more to life than recruit. Realize there's more to life than the law. 

is this what I have to look forward to in life?

[uoftearsalumna]

1 hour ago, ls.ca said:

 

The 11-Step Macro Plan:

1. Punch a pillow or five. Take a breath. Get a nice bottle of wine. Draw a nice bath. Soak and watch a comfort show. Still get poor sleep but with less muscle soreness. 
2. Take a few weeks to feel numb in classes. Then panic when you feel the stress of performing well on exams as you ponder their necessity for articling recruit, or *gasp* open recruitment. 
3. Do fine on exams. Have a Christmas where you're starting to feel better, until you stress about telling friends and family that were in on the OCI process that your struck out. 
4. Make out with your partner, or a stranger, on New Years eve. Resolve to come back with a vengeance. 
5. Crush second term. Cold call firms (even those who you might have previously applied to). Advocate for yourself as you network in the cold-call environment. 
6. Get a lot of no replies, many rejections, a few responses of mid to poor interest, and a handful of possible routes. 
7. Lock into a possible route. Bust your ass. Decide to continue with them or begin the 2-3 year process of a reasonable lateral. 
8. Pay off law school debts, continue with life as a new call. 
9. Get into 5 years of doing law. Realize that your colleagues at Sister Firms are either people who have no life, hate themselves, are in a first divorce, and cannot escape their jobs as they are trapped in the lifestyle creep.
10. Wake up, realize that it was silly that you punched the pillow five years ago. Take a breath. Get a nice bottle of wine. Draw a bath. Relax.
11. Realize there is more to life than recruit. Realize there's more to life than the law. 

I appreciate hearing this. End of the day, my plan is Bay Street private practice. I’d like to end up there one day, only shitty part of striking out of this recruit is the path there is less known/formalized. I can’t help but feel I did something wrong to get myself cut. Pardon my ignorance to the other opportunities out there, but I’m drawn to Bay Street private practice because of the really cool, complex work opportunities. Just need to find opportunities that will help me get there one day, but the path to getting there seems very unclear as well. Also lateraling scares me. I’ve heard things like your time in this recruit follows you, so if the firms didn’t like who I am now how will that opinion change despite my resume being better. I feel it’s a catch-22 not landing in this recruit - one that sets students up for failure. As a consequence of putting my time into it, I’m quite behind in my classes, not sure how I’m going to do fine on exams per the plan. But I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless.

My integrity and value as a person feel questioned. My desire to practice law feels questioned. Everything is just 1 big question mark. I know what I’m saying seems very over dramatized, and  I hope to shake this feeling off, just can’t help but question my life/1L choices leading me up to here as well as my personability that I don’t show well in interviews. I don’t know anymore. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by uoftearsalumna

[C_Terror]

2 hours ago, uoftearsalumna said:

I appreciate hearing this. End of the day, my plan is Bay Street private practice. I’d like to end up there one day, only shitty part of striking out of this recruit is the path there is less known/formalized. I can’t help but feel I did something wrong to get myself cut. Pardon my ignorance to the other opportunities out there, but I’m drawn to Bay Street private practice because of the really cool, complex work opportunities. Just need to find opportunities that will help me get there one day, but the path to getting there seems very unclear as well. Also lateraling scares me. I’ve heard things like your time in this recruit follows you, so if the firms didn’t like who I am now how will that opinion change despite my resume being better. I feel it’s a catch-22 not landing in this recruit - one that sets students up for failure. As a consequence of putting my time into it, I’m quite behind in my classes, not sure how I’m going to do fine on exams per the plan. But I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless.

My integrity and value as a person feel questioned. My desire to practice law feels questioned. Everything is just 1 big question mark. I know what I’m saying seems very over dramatized, and I hope to shake this feeling off, just can’t help but question my life/1L choices leading me up to here as well as my personability that I don’t show well in interviews. I don’t know anymore.

If it makes you feel any better, basically any of my classmates who wanted to get into big law in Bay Street but struck out of OCIs all ended up in big firms in Bay Street five years after OCIs.

It sucks at the moment, but definitely not an unclear path tbh.  

[BHC1]

 

5 hours ago, C_Terror said:

If it makes you feel any better, basically any of my classmates who wanted to get into big law in Bay Street but struck out of OCIs all ended up in big firms in Bay Street five years after OCIs.

It sucks at the moment, but definitely not an unclear path tbh.  

This. I’ve had friends who took jobs in Hamilton, London-ON, and small firms in the GTA who ended up on Bay Street 5-years later. Attrition is high and there is always room for the right lateral hire. 

Moreover, there is a large and growing secondary recruit likely going on right now (Torkin Manes, Blaney, etc.) for summer students. Dentons, Blakes, and BJ have also done the articling recruit in years that they need more students. The fact of the matter is you got 3 in-firms, which means you are an excellent candidate. 

Personally you couldn’t pay me enough ever to work on Bay St. again. But if you really are driven to get there, you absolutely will. There is no reason to lose hope if this is what you want. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by BHC1

[BlockedQuebecois]

9 hours ago, ls.ca said:

Get into 5 years of doing law. Realize that your colleagues at Sister Firms are either people who have no life, hate themselves, are in a first divorce, and cannot escape their jobs as they are trapped in the lifestyle creep.

I appreciate that the point of this post is vaguely to make OP feel better, but the overarching context in which you are posting is that a large proportion of law students just got positions they are quite excited to have received. In that context, making a post about how you think they'll all hate themselves and have no lives is tasteless.

This sentiment usually doesn't warrant any kind of comment because it is obviously coming from a place of insecurity and inexperience, but given it was made on literal offer day I think it deserves to be called out. 

You can help people feel better about missing opportunities without putting down those who were successful in getting those opportunities. 

[uoftearsalumna]

12 minutes ago, BHC1 said:

 

This. I’ve had friends who took jobs in Hamilton, London-ON, and small firms in the GTA who ended up on Bay Street 5-years later. Attrition is high and there is always room for the right lateral hire. 

Moreover, there is a large and growing secondary recruit likely going on right now (Torkin Manes, Blaney, etc.) for summer students. Dentons, Blakes, and BJ have also done the articling recruit in years that they need more students. The fact of the matter is you got 3 in-firms, which means you are an excellent candidate. 

Personally you couldn’t pay me enough ever to work on Bay St. again. But if you really are driven to get there, you absolutely will. There is no reason to lose hope if this is what you want. 

Thanks for your note, I appreciate it. I think my uncertainty of where to move forward stems from issues I feel I have as a person. I just don’t know what’s wrong with me and how to improve. Time for therapy I guess. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by uoftearsalumna

[WhoKnows]

1 hour ago, uoftearsalumna said:

Thanks for your note, I appreciate it. I think my uncertainty of where to move forward stems from issues I feel I have as a person. I just don’t know what’s wrong with me and how to improve. Time for therapy I guess. 

Probably nothing. There are a lot of great candidates, for one reason or another, who slip through the formal recruit despite being excellent. I can tell you I would have been happy with the top 10 or 12 of our list last recruit, we took 5 for my department. 

Provided you weren't rude/sexist/racist/etc. in your final interviews, there's likely nothing wrong. Sometimes you're just number 6 on a 5 person list, and the small sample size of recruits means that if that happens 3 times you're gonna strike out. The margins are thin here. 

10 hours ago, uoftearsalumna said:

Also lateraling scares me. I’ve heard things like your time in this recruit follows you, so if the firms didn’t like who I am now how will that opinion change despite my resume being better.

I'm currently at a large firm that rejected me after OCIs when I was in 2L. Unless you really truly were terrible (think the "isms" I noted above), no one will remember. Especially if you're any good at the whole lawyering thing. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

13 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Probably nothing.

Well, probably nothing in relation to interview technique and your CV. 

I would suggest that if you are catastrophizing not getting a job offer in a relatively competitive recruit to the extent you are questioning your own integrity and value as a person, you probably have some things you need to improve. 

[ls.ca]

1 hour ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

You can help people feel better about missing opportunities without putting down those who were successful in getting those opportunities.

Wasn't the intention to put down those who have secured Big Law summer jobs. The only goal was to add some perspective to the whole thing, especially in tee-ing it up to the last statement I made about how there's more to life than Big Law or the Recruit. That is not to denigrate Big Law, but to drive home the idea that if you made it this far in the recruit, you will do fine somewhere else. You will figure things out. You will be OK.

Frankly, I'd be shocked if anyone who just accepted an offer from the formal recruit gives a rat's ass about an opinion from some guy on the internet. Moreover, the nature of this thread isn't even meant for those types of candidates. It's literally for those who have struck out.

It's all relative man. Big Law or not, we're all here to become lawyers who are happy, healthy, and successful. How we define each of those metrics depends on who we are as people. 

Regardless, I appreciate the perspective, and the chance for me to clarify.

[chaboywb]

10 hours ago, uoftearsalumna said:

I appreciate hearing this. End of the day, my plan is Bay Street private practice. I’d like to end up there one day, only shitty part of striking out of this recruit is the path there is less known/formalized. I can’t help but feel I did something wrong to get myself cut. Pardon my ignorance to the other opportunities out there, but I’m drawn to Bay Street private practice because of the really cool, complex work opportunities. Just need to find opportunities that will help me get there one day, but the path to getting there seems very unclear as well. Also lateraling scares me. I’ve heard things like your time in this recruit follows you, so if the firms didn’t like who I am now how will that opinion change despite my resume being better. I feel it’s a catch-22 not landing in this recruit - one that sets students up for failure. As a consequence of putting my time into it, I’m quite behind in my classes, not sure how I’m going to do fine on exams per the plan. But I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless.

My integrity and value as a person feel questioned. My desire to practice law feels questioned. Everything is just 1 big question mark. I know what I’m saying seems very over dramatized, and  I hope to shake this feeling off, just can’t help but question my life/1L choices leading me up to here as well as my personability that I don’t show well in interviews. I don’t know anymore. 

It’s a very random process. Much stronger students than me did not get positions while I did. One of our medalists got in-firms with every Seven Sister firm and walked away with no job. A good friend of mine, who is absolutely killing it in his field, struck out during OCIs and only got his position during the articling recruit. I also have now met many people who articled at smaller firms and lateraled as first years to Bay.

To your point about the recruit following you, I can assure you that all but one or two people have forgotten who you are already, let alone when articling hiring rolls around. I remember thinking I made an amazing connection with a partner as a first year, who then looked at me like I had two heads when our paths crossed a year later. 

[WhoKnows]

4 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Well, probably nothing in relation to interview technique and your CV. 

I would suggest that if you are catastrophizing not getting a job offer in a relatively competitive recruit to the extent you are questioning your own integrity and value as a person, you probably have some things you need to improve. 

Also true - OP should still get the therapy, just not to fix his interview skills. 

[uoftearsalumna]

28 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Well, probably nothing in relation to interview technique and your CV. 

I would suggest that if you are catastrophizing not getting a job offer in a relatively competitive recruit to the extent you are questioning your own integrity and value as a person, you probably have some things you need to improve. 

It’s a very common feeling to feel unsure about who a person in the face of rejection. Very hard to walk away thinking nothing wrong with me when I didn’t get the call yesterday and got released from other firms. I know it’s not personal, but it ultimately feels like it is. I ultimately just can’t shake the feeling of uncertainty as to what I did wrong and why these firms didn’t like me enough to extend an offer. Sounds very pick me, but frankly a big part of this recruit is. I’m not catastrophizing anything. I have family support, great friends, I know In the long run I will be fine. Just who I am as a person feels questioned - a very normal response to getting rejected in general, and I need to work through that. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by uoftearsalumna

[chaboywb]

16 minutes ago, uoftearsalumna said:

It’s a very common feeling to feel unsure about who I am as a person in the face of rejection. Very hard to walk away thinking nothing wrong with me when I didn’t get the call yesterday and got released from other firms. I know it’s not personal, but it ultimately feels like it is. I ultimately just can’t shake the feeling of uncertainty as to what I did wrong and why these firms didn’t like me enough to extend an offer. Sounds very pick me, but frankly a big part of this recruit is. I’m not catastrophizing anything. I have family support, great friends, I know In the long run I will be fine. Just who I am as a person feels questioned - a very normal response to getting rejected in general, and I need to work through that 

All of your concerns and feelings are valid but you are absolutely catastrophizing. You are questioning who you are as a person because a bunch of people you will never see again and who you had a few hours to impress decided you weren’t the right fit for them at this time. Polish your interview skills and resume, continue to do well in school and get therapy, but do not question who you are. That is a completely overblown response.

This isn’t intended to be an insult, it should be comfort. You’ll look back and realize this is insignificant even if it feels impossible to see that now.

I say this as someone who was rejected from what felt like a dream job in 1L. I now look back and realize how fortunate I am that happened because things have gone incredibly since then.

Edited November 9, 2023 by chaboywb

[CheeseToast]

38 minutes ago, BlockedQuebecois said:

Well, probably nothing in relation to interview technique and your CV. 

I would suggest that if you are catastrophizing not getting a job offer in a relatively competitive recruit to the extent you are questioning your own integrity and value as a person, you probably have some things you need to improve. 

Come on man, this is a pretty common response to rejection for Type-A people. 

[CleanHands]

Law students are the worst.

[legallyblond23]

Hey listen, just keep it in perspective, many of us on this site are just hoping to get into law school. You not only achieved that, but you are also doing well enough to get in firm interviews for L2.  There is still the articling round, and frankly my guess is given you are clearly the type of person that is willing to question yourself to this extent, you are ambitious and will do really well in life, and law.  Totally get the raw emotion you are feeling, and you have my sympathy. On a humorous note (I hope), you have now given us obsessive wanna be law students something brand new to stress about other than just getting into law school!

[BlockedQuebecois]

18 minutes ago, CheeseToast said:

Come on man, this is a pretty common response to rejection for Type-A people. 

Sounds like lots of people have things to improve 🙂 

[123]

3 hours ago, uoftearsalumna said:

Time for therapy I guess. 

Almost everyone needs therapy! Not just neurotic law students.

 

[MyWifesBoyfriend]

13 hours ago, ls.ca said:

Get into 5 years of doing law. Realize that your colleagues at Sister Firms are either people who have no life, hate themselves, are in a first divorce, and cannot escape their jobs as they are trapped in the lifestyle creep.

FWIW Two of my friends currently work in these firms and had received their offers after law school. They love their job, and quite frankly, I'd also be incredibly jazzed to get an offer to one of these. Not a fair assessment - especially seeing as a lateral move is always possible. I've been told to stay away from Davies though.

[Hegdis]

Hey so, let’s keep this thread kind and supportive (within the bounds of realism).

if we want to have a broader discussion about the types of people who make up law students and lawyers, or launch into a “whatever, Biglaw sucks anyway” discussion, we can do it elsewhere.

This thread is obviously a venting space to commiserate with fellow students going through one of the processes we all went through / will go through. 

[Rashabon]

For what it's worth I love my job and am happy where I am and it is one of those senior Bay Street positions.

Also, plenty of people end up on Bay Street or even certain firms from alternate paths. In my group alone we have people that (a) started their career in-house, (b) articled at one large shop and started as an associate in ours, (c) articled in-house, (d) completed the LPP program, (e) lateralled from a large shop, and (f) lateralled from smaller shops not known for the work that my group does. So doors aren't closed. You just have to work a little bit harder to squeeze through but it does happen. There is additional hiring for non-OCI firms coming up as well as lots of good firms that will hire articling students (either in addition to summer students or exclusively at the articling stage). Getting hired in the 2L recruit is by far the easiest path but doesn't mean it's the exclusive one.