I am freaking out, any words of encouragements

[Helpmeplease]

Hi! Last year I didn’t get accepted to any lawschools. This year i applied to the same schools. I did get my lsat up from 160 to 165 (Jan score). I didn’t get waitlisted in the prior year anywhere. 
 

Now I improved my LSAT but I am still freaking out because I think my stats are not good enough for the schools i applied to (ottawa, queens, western, osgoode and uoft). 
 

I would love some words of encouragement. 
 

cgpa; 3.47, lsat: 165, b2: 3.55ish

[Kimura]

Just out of curiosity, why did you not apply to Windsor?

You have a solid LSAT, good job. The only school that has a higher median LSAT out of the schools you applied to is U of T (168) for 2021 (https://www.law.utoronto.ca/about/fact-sheet).

Assuming you're on a 4.0 scale, I believe you have a pretty good shot at Ottawa, as they look for around an 80% CGPA and LSAT above 157 (which you've achieved) (https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/students/admissions/admissions-criteria).

Western's CGPA/B2 is 3.6/3.7 respectively, so you're a tad bit low there but you beat their mean/median highest LSAT score (163) (https://law.uwo.ca/future_students/jd_admissions/class_profiles.html).

Osgoode's median CGPA was 3.69 but you beat their median LSAT score (160ish) (https://www.osgoode.yorku.ca/programs/juris-doctor/jd-admissions/first-year-applicants/eligibility-requirements/).

You beat Queen's LSAT Highest Score average (161), but your B2 falls short for 2021 (3.8) (https://law.queensu.ca/programs/jd/class-stats).

Your LSAT jump is really impressive. It's hard to get those extra points as you go up the percentile rankings. It will count for something. I know it's hard, but all you can do is cross your fingers and hope for the best. Best of luck and I hope things work out for you.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Kimura
Edited because my first post wasn't all that useful

[Helpmeplease]

40 minutes ago, Kimura said:

Just out of curiosity, why did you not apply to Windsor?

You have a solid LSAT, good job. The only school that has a higher median LSAT out of the schools you applied to is U of T (168) for 2021 (https://www.law.utoronto.ca/about/fact-sheet).

Assuming you're on a 4.0 scale, I believe you have a pretty good shot at Ottawa, as they look for around an 80% CGPA and LSAT above 157 (which you've achieved) (https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/students/admissions/admissions-criteria).

Western's CGPA/B2 is 3.6/3.7 respectively, so you're a tad bit low there but you beat their mean/median highest LSAT score (163) (https://law.uwo.ca/future_students/jd_admissions/class_profiles.html).

Osgoode's median CGPA was 3.69 but you beat their median LSAT score (160ish) (https://www.osgoode.yorku.ca/programs/juris-doctor/jd-admissions/first-year-applicants/eligibility-requirements/).

You beat Queen's LSAT Highest Score average (161), but your B2 falls short for 2021 (3.8) (https://law.queensu.ca/programs/jd/class-stats).

Your LSAT jump is really impressive. It's hard to get those extra points as you go up the percentile rankings. It will count for something. I know it's hard, but all you can do is cross your fingers and hope for the best. Best of luck and I hope things work out for you.

 

I didn’t apply to windsor because they did not even give me a rejection letter last year. It was no reply at all. I had limited amount of funds so I had to pick and choose. 
 
I am really hoping for Ottawa or Queens but I did not get waitlisted for either last year. 
 

thank you for your insight by the way. 
 

edit; i also applied access

Edited February 4, 2022 by Helpmeplease

[LordBONSAI]

I don't think many people have realized how slow this cycle is. Law schools will take time to appreciate the fact that they're not seeing as many competitive applicants as in last year. Your stats will get you in somewhere for sure. So, the best advice I can give you is: be patient. Things are out of your control and there's no point ruminating now. 

I submitted my apps to ten law schools last year and only heard back from two. This process is excruciatingly surreal but we have to go through it. Good luck.

Edited February 4, 2022 by LordBONSAI

[Kimura]

2 minutes ago, Helpmeplease said:

I had limited amount of funds so I had to pick and choose.

Makes sense. $200 for OLSAS fee and $100 per school...pretty ridiculous that it costs $700 to apply to 5 Canadian law schools.

Anyhow, no problem. Maybe someone else will chime in with some additional insight. Good luck! 

[Helpmeplease]

3 minutes ago, LordBONSAI said:

I don't think many people have realized how slow this cycle is. Law schools will take time to appreciate the fact that they're not seeing as many competitive applicants as in last year. Your stats will get you in somewhere for sure. So, the best advice I can give you is: be patient. Things are out of your control and there's no point ruminating now. 

I submitted my apps to ten law schools last year and only heard back from two. This process is excruciatingly surreal but we have to go through it. Good luck.

Thank you! I’ve read your posts on many people’s posts. You’ve been a great help on these forums

[Boris]

FWIW, I was accepted at uOttawa with both a worse GPA and LSAT than yours. Sometimes, your personnal statement, ECs and LORs can make a difference.

It is also fairly early in the cycle, so you can give yourself a chance. Plus, last cycle is said to be more competitive than the current one, so that could also come into play.

[NowOrNever]

10 hours ago, Helpmeplease said:

I didn’t apply to windsor because they did not even give me a rejection letter last year. It was no reply at all. I had limited amount of funds so I had to pick and choose. 
 
I am really hoping for Ottawa or Queens but I did not get waitlisted for either last year. 
 

thank you for your insight by the way. 
 

edit; i also applied access

What is your L2 GPA?

You have a shot at Ottawa, Queens, Western and Osgoode but not guaranteed.

With limited amount of funds I suggest you apply to UNB as well (in case you didn't get into any Ontario school this cycle, plus, UNB has lower tuition).

 

[NowOrNever]

10 hours ago, Boris said:

FWIW, I was accepted at uOttawa with both a worse GPA and LSAT than yours. Sometimes, your personnal statement, ECs and LORs can make a difference.

It is also fairly early in the cycle, so you can give yourself a chance. Plus, last cycle is said to be more competitive than the current one, so that could also come into play.

uOttawa may put you in mature category.

More than 4 years of working experience in the CAF makes a big difference.

[Helpmeplease]

1 hour ago, NowOrNever said:

What is your L2 GPA?

You have a shot at Ottawa, Queens, Western and Osgoode but not guaranteed.

With limited amount of funds I suggest you apply to UNB as well (in case you didn't get into any Ontario school this cycle, plus, UNB has lower tuition).

 

My L2 is 3.55 as well. 
 

good to know I have a shot. I thought my 165 would help me a lot this cycle

 

i also applied access with medical documents

Edited February 4, 2022 by Helpmeplease

[VitalGiraffe]

If you literally could not afford to apply to all the schools you wanted then surely you could've gotten some of the fees waived?

[Boris]

4 hours ago, NowOrNever said:

uOttawa may put you in mature category.

More than 4 years of working experience in the CAF makes a big difference.

I thought it was 5. In any case, I'm not complaining!

[SNAILS]

An LSAT improvement of 160 to 165 is a BIG deal. Even a 1 point difference could make one application a rejected and the other an accepted, but 5 points is very significant.  Take encouragement in that.

[KNCZ]

On 2/4/2022 at 12:00 AM, LordBONSAI said:

I don't think many people have realized how slow this cycle is. Law schools will take time to appreciate the fact that they're not seeing as many competitive applicants as in last year. Your stats will get you in somewhere for sure. So, the best advice I can give you is: be patient. Things are out of your control and there's no point ruminating now. 

I submitted my apps to ten law schools last year and only heard back from two. This process is excruciatingly surreal but we have to go through it. Good luck.

Would this preclude the possibility that admissions committees may consider lower LSAT/GPA thresholds or splitters/reverse splitters in a more favourable light this cycle? I have heard of extreme stories of 140's + 3.5-3.6 getting in and even the reverse of 160's-170's + 2.9-3.2 from last cycle.. Maybe there could be more occurrences of that this year?

[luckycharm]

On 2/3/2022 at 10:58 PM, Helpmeplease said:

Hi! Last year I didn’t get accepted to any lawschools. This year i applied to the same schools. I did get my lsat up from 160 to 165 (Jan score). I didn’t get waitlisted in the prior year anywhere. 
 

Now I improved my LSAT but I am still freaking out because I think my stats are not good enough for the schools i applied to (ottawa, queens, western, osgoode and uoft). 
 

I would love some words of encouragement. 
 

cgpa; 3.47, lsat: 165, b2: 3.55ish

If your 3.47 is per OLSAS then I think you have a better than 80% chance with 165.

[LordBONSAI]

2 hours ago, KNCZ said:

Would this preclude the possibility that admissions committees may consider lower LSAT/GPA thresholds or splitters/reverse splitters in a more favourable light this cycle? I have heard of extreme stories of 140's + 3.5-3.6 getting in and even the reverse of 160's-170's + 2.9-3.2 from last cycle.. Maybe there could be more occurrences of that this year?

As of today, data points of several Ontario schools & UBC on the forum and LSD produce medians higher than last cycle's. On this UBC thread, we discussed the (potential) inflation of the index score. Someone also mentioned the words from UBC's admissions that this cycle would be 'at least' as competitive as last one. However, applicants who report their stats online are not representative of the incoming class, and the cycle is not over yet. Therefore, I cannot infer a lot regarding how the 2021-21 cycle will play out, apart from that it'll be slower than usual. 

Extreme splitters are relatively few compared to the entire applicant pool. They may have stellar softs, PS, LoRs to compensate for a underperformed GPA or LSAT. I wouldn't suggest anyone bank on their success stories. That said, I did notice that UofT becomes friendlier to splitters, having studied the data from the first two rounds. There may be some reasons for it: the drop of 170+ scorers, a more holistic approach for admissions, or, simply, a sampling bias. 

While we can't the see the big picture now, I do believe that applicants with less competitive stats (in last cycle's terms) stand a chance. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by LordBONSAI

[Helpmeplease]

2 hours ago, luckycharm said:

If your 3.47 is per OLSAS then I think you have a better than 80% chance with 165.

Thank you! 
 

what school are we talking about?

[luckycharm]

5 hours ago, Helpmeplease said:

Thank you! 
 

what school are we talking about?

Ottawa

[dimsum1]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:41 AM, NowOrNever said:

More than 4 years of working experience in the CAF makes a big difference.

I hope you're right!  In my case, I had pretty garbage cGPA 20 years ago (about 3.0) and LSAT of 158, but going on over 20 years of work experience in the CAF.

I haven't heard from Ottawa, Western, or UNB yet, but I'm not surprised given my cGPA and LSAT.  Still, I'm getting a little nervous even though it's early in the cycle.

Edited February 9, 2022 by dimsum1

[NowOrNever]

6 minutes ago, dimsum1 said:

I hope you're right!  In my case, I had pretty garbage cGPA 20 years ago (about 3.0) and LSAT of 158, but going on over 20 years of work experience in the CAF.

I haven't heard from Ottawa, Western, or UNB yet, but I'm not surprised given my cGPA and LSAT.  Still, I'm getting a little nervous even though it's early in the cycle.

Boris has a 164 LSAT score.

158 is a little bit tough.

[lawandordermaker]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:22 PM, VitalGiraffe said:

If you literally could not afford to apply to all the schools you wanted then surely you could've gotten some of the fees waived?

It's not always that easy. You need to apply for that in advance and sometimes things happen that can't be known in advance like being laid off due to COVID. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by lawandordermaker

[VitalGiraffe]

On 2/5/2022 at 10:17 AM, LordBONSAI said:

I did notice that UofT becomes friendlier to splitters, having studied the data from the first two rounds.

You have piqued my interest. Do share.

[TheLawyer]

I'd be very surprised if you don't get into almost every school that you applied to. 

if you applied to the main schools in Ontario (UofT, Osgoode, Windsor, Queens, Ottawa, Western etc.) I'm surprised you didn't get in a year ago.

[owl12]

2 hours ago, TheLawyer said:

I'd be very surprised if you don't get into almost every school that you applied to. 

if you applied to the main schools in Ontario (UofT, Osgoode, Windsor, Queens, Ottawa, Western etc.) I'm surprised you didn't get in a year ago.

Um wut? OP is below the cGPA median for Osgoode, UBC, Ottawa, and Victoria, below the B3 median for Toronto, below the B2 median for Queens, Alberta, Calgary, and Western. They’re LSAT is pretty good, but below the median for at least Toronto.

 

I’d be surprised if they don’t get into at least some of the schools they apply to, but as a splitter, I don’t know how you came to the conclusion that they’re likely to get into all of them. 

[LordBONSAI]

7 hours ago, VitalGiraffe said:

You have piqued my interest. Do share.

I looked at this cycle's data points on the forum. Out of 49 admitted students in first two rounds, 6 are splitters/reverse splitters. Last year the ratio was 6/68. 

There's a reasonable degree of self selection/sampling bias of these data points and several people only reported their cGPA rather than B3, so I'm cautious with my findings. We'll see the big picture in March.

Edited February 11, 2022 by LordBONSAI