Things I could have done in those 9 months waiting for an admission decision

[Munk29]

31 minutes ago, Munk29 said:

Since you asked for an alternative, I’d say simply respect the initial deadlines (it was June for mcgill law). 

 

12 minutes ago, QueensDenning said:

If admitting people based on socioeconomic status rather than merit is not your alternative, then what is?

@QueensDenningquoted my alternative previously written in this thread. 

 

12 minutes ago, QueensDenning said:

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep trying,

Agreed

 

12 minutes ago, QueensDenning said:

I've made it to where I am and I'm not sure I would've had the motivation to do so if my background was such that younger years were "easy".

Felt that 

 

12 minutes ago, QueensDenning said:

I just find it silly to bring up diversity when it comes to admissions timelines. They're the way they are for previously mentioned reasons, not because the system is trying to keep you out.

Again, I never said the faculty in itself was doing it in an attempt to keep us out (I did though extended my thought to the way society was built and I guess this implies that it impacts any academic institution), I just intended to address the fact that the late admitted low income students (even if not as competitive) would be impacted and that there was nothing up to my current knowledge that could ease the process for them specifically. 

45 minutes ago, Goblin King said:

OP, you are not entitled to a decision in a time that suits you. 

@Goblin King No, as I don’t think I’m the Queen of England, but I think I’m entitled to expect a school to respect their own deadlines (initially end of June 2021, extended unofficially in an email they sent an applicant saying that because of covid they thought all decisions + waitlisting would be made at the end of July 2021. 
 

edit: tagged a user 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Munk29

[bluebean]

Ignoring the SES/diversity factor, OP has a point. If schools claim a certain date is when applicants can expect a decision, they should stick to that. Not everyone can uproot their lives so abruptly (as seen from the TRU fiasco). At best, it's disorganized on behalf of the admissions committees. At worst, it's dishonest and they're taking advantage of the fact that we can't really force them to work faster. 

I don't see why med school admissions committees can have multiple interview sessions, a thousand more applicants per school, and still have all their decisions coordinated and published on the same day (at least, for ON), whereas law schools ghost students for months, if not entirely. 

If they can't make any of these changes, they should forgo promising a deadline at all and make it clear that past a certain date, students should start preparing to apply the following year. (Obviously, doesn't apply to all schools.)

[CleanHands]

6 minutes ago, samii said:

I don't see why med school admissions committees can have multiple interview sessions, a thousand more applicants per school, and still have all their decisions coordinated and published on the same day (at least, for ON), whereas law schools ghost students for months, if not entirely. 

One of my friends was admitted to a Canadian medical school literally a few days before classes started, because another student changed their mind that late. She had assumed she was rejected and was camping in the boonies with her fiancé with no cell reception, and her father took the call and was given 24 hours to find her and get back to them with a response (which he managed to do by hauling ass out of town and frantically searching the woods). My friend was apparently number 1 on the waitlist but nobody had told her that before.

These situations come up at every school, every cycle. I don't know why some people in this thread are acting like admissions run like clockwork and can be set in stone months before classes start.

Again, these things are not ideal but applicants have the choice to remain on the list and be considered for these sorts of chaotic situations if they want to go that badly.

Edited July 16, 2021 by CleanHands

[Munk29]

10 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

if they want to go that badly.

As I and a few others have stated before, it’s not a question of will but of means, but I’m not restating my previous points 

 

15 minutes ago, samii said:

Ignoring the SES/diversity factor, OP has a point. If schools claim a certain date is when applicants can expect a decision, they should stick to that. Not everyone can uproot their lives so abruptly (as seen from the TRU fiasco). At best, it's disorganized on behalf of the admissions committees. At worst, it's dishonest and they're taking advantage of the fact that we can't really force them to work faster. 

I don't see why med school admissions committees can have multiple interview sessions, a thousand more applicants per school, and still have all their decisions coordinated and published on the same day (at least, for ON), whereas law schools ghost students for months, if not entirely. 

If they can't make any of these changes, they should forgo promising a deadline at all and make it clear that past a certain date, students should start preparing to apply the following year. (Obviously, doesn't apply to all schools

👏👏👏
 

edit: typo

Edited July 16, 2021 by Munk29

[bluebean]

Just now, CleanHands said:

Again, these things are not ideal but applicants have the choice to remain on the list and be considered for these sorts of chaotic situations if they want to go that badly.

I don't mean on a waitlist - waitlisting is a decision in itself although it could lead to a hectic situation. That's up to the applicant to wait or not. I mean for getting one of the following decisions - Accepted, Rejected, Waitlisted. 

If an applicant is left on 'Reviewed by Committee/Ready for Review' well past any disclosed deadline, that's what isn't okay. 

[CleanHands]

Just now, samii said:

I don't mean on a waitlist - waitlisting is a decision in itself although it could lead to a hectic situation. That's up to the applicant to wait or not. I mean for getting one of the following decisions - Accepted, Rejected, Waitlisted. 

If an applicant is left on 'Reviewed by Committee/Ready for Review' well past any disclosed deadline, that's what isn't okay. 

Okay, I agree that at a certain point they should just be officially waitlisted for the sake of good communication. Fair enough. I just think that past a certain point no response equals an implicit waitlisting.

[Squeen]

3 minutes ago, samii said:

I don't mean on a waitlist - waitlisting is a decision in itself although it could lead to a hectic situation. That's up to the applicant to wait or not. I mean for getting one of the following decisions - Accepted, Rejected, Waitlisted. 

If an applicant is left on 'Reviewed by Committee/Ready for Review' well past any disclosed deadline, that's what isn't okay. 

Agreed 100%. At least when you are waitlisted, you have somewhat an answer.

I have been "Referred to ADCOM" at Windsor since Feb with no response. I somewhat moved on but I also plan on hiring a tutor that is costly and it is a risk that i cannot take right now.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Squeen

[Goblin King]

1 hour ago, Munk29 said:

 

@Goblin King No, as I don’t think I’m the Queen of England, but I think I’m entitled to expect a school to respect their own deadlines (initially end of June 2021, extended unofficially in an email they sent an applicant saying that because of covid they thought all decisions + waitlisting would be made at the end of July 2021. 
 

edit: tagged a user 

Wasn't aware they'd given out a specific deadline. Missing it is unprofessional. Apologies. 

[Munk29]

11 minutes ago, Goblin King said:

Wasn't aware they'd given out a specific deadline. Missing it is unprofessional. Apologies. 

We good, I appreciated the constructive and respectful exchange though we held different positions 

[BlackPanther]

11 hours ago, QueensDenning said:

I'm not white, and you know nothing about my socioeconomic position - I would put it in the category of "tricky". Diversity becomes a "card" when you use it to vilify school administrators for not getting back to you as quick as you'd like. Some things (like moving on short notice) pose more of a barrier to some than others, and that's a fact of life. But if you got into law-school, you have access to OSAP and a student line of credit, which allows pretty much anyone to be able to move at a short notice. I don't see how diversity plays into that. If you're a top candidate, you know well in advance where you'll be going to school, and if you're not, you have to deal with it. Saying it's a diversity issue doesn't make sense to me. 

Edit: there are lots of diversity issues when it comes to law school applications, response time is not, in my opinion, one of them. And saying it is distracts from other areas where change should and could happen. 

I completely disagree with your opinions. The fact that you claim “you know nothing about socioeconomic position” & then give points that one can win over such McGill situation at a very short notice (in fact days T-something) is so disappointing. I am a POC & I belong to a low socioeconomic status and I can proudly say that yes there are numerous hurdles that I need to sort out before I can move to a new province. There are associated costs, references, time, people, dependents, families involved. It is not as easy as you describe to grab OSAP & a bank loan and move to a new province. 

[BlockedQuebecois]

It's generally advisable to understand someone's opinions before boldly stating that you completely disagree with them. Properly reading the post is a good first step. 

[Avatar Aang]

Things you could have done while waiting:

Get a part-time job.

Volunteer with COVID-related/community initiatives.

Pursue a graduate degree.

Prepare to retake the LSAT or raise your GPA if you saw that you were not likely to get in anywhere.

Take courses and certificates online. Personal and professional learning doesn't stop even if you get into law school. 

Set personal fitness goals.

Spend quality time with your family and friends.

OP, it sucks to be in the 5% of applicants still waiting on a decision, but frankly, no system is perfect and some people fall through the cracks. The vast majority of applicants have already received a decision one way or another. We recently had a heated thread over people being upset on being placed on Osgoode's waitlist. You can never fully satisfy those people who have not gotten into any law school and are desperately holding out the hope of getting into just one. Make yourself a more competitive candidate and you wouldn't have to be lounging around for the scraps. Pull up class profiles for the Ontario schools and there are 40-50% visible minorities from various socioeconomic backgrounds attending. The fact that a few uncompetitive candidates who would face hardship if offered a late admissions decisions are still waiting is of little consequence to most people involved in this process. 

[artsydork]

Why are some of y'all getting into an argument in an admissions post about a school you didn't even go to/apply to this cycle?

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by artsydork

[efrefgg]

What, not being subject to a policy invalidates your opinion on it? Let them talk.

[Munk29]

6 hours ago, Avatar Aang said:

Things you could have done while waiting:

Get a part-time job.

Volunteer with COVID-related/community initiatives.

Pursue a graduate degree.

Prepare to retake the LSAT or raise your GPA if you saw that you were not likely to get in anywhere.

Take courses and certificates online. Personal and professional learning doesn't stop even if you get into law school. 

Set personal fitness goals.

Spend quality time with your family and friends.

OP, it sucks to be in the 5% of applicants still waiting on a decision, but frankly, no system is perfect and some people fall through the cracks. The vast majority of applicants have already received a decision one way or another. We recently had a heated thread over people being upset on being placed on Osgoode's waitlist. You can never fully satisfy those people who have not gotten into any law school and are desperately holding out the hope of getting into just one. Make yourself a more competitive candidate and you wouldn't have to be lounging around for the scraps. Pull up class profiles for the Ontario schools and there are 40-50% visible minorities from various socioeconomic backgrounds attending. The fact that a few uncompetitive candidates who would face hardship if offered a late admissions decisions are still waiting is of little consequence to most people involved in this process. 

This reply is hilarious. This thread was supposed to be a satire, you really think I waited all those months doing nothing? 😂 also, bold of you to think I would ever move to Ontario, I ain’t going to the province that fun forgot, absolutely not. 
 

when you say “sucks to be in the 5%”/“vast majority already got a decision”, where do you get that data from? I’m talking about mcgill specifically. 

[Avatar Aang]

1 hour ago, Munk29 said:

This reply is hilarious. This thread was supposed to be a satire, you really think I waited all those months doing nothing? 😂 also, bold of you to think I would ever move to Ontario, I ain’t going to the province that fun forgot, absolutely not. 
 

when you say “sucks to be in the 5%”/“vast majority already got a decision”, where do you get that data from? I’m talking about mcgill specifically. 

Yea, I am similarly chuckling at your response...

I mentioned Ontario law school class profiles as an example of the diversity represented in Canadian law schools. Beggars can't be choosers. As of now, you don't have a single law school acceptance, so Ontario is not on the cards either.

You can't honestly believe that any more than 5 or 10% of the applicant pool is still waiting on a decision from McGill. The class is likely full now and most decisions have gone out. If you want to confirm this, give them a call and ask them how many people are still awaiting a decision. 

You can rant about this all you want online but this is a non-issue for the administration and most of the other applicants. This isn't going to tarnish McGill's reputation in any way as they have already accepted the majority of candidates they wanted to accept. 

It seems like McGill is doing just fine with their diversity. They're not going to lose any sleep over this.

https://www.mcgill.ca/law/bcl-jd/program-description/student-body-and-alumni-data

37% belong to a visible or racialized minority

25% self-identify as part of the LGBTTQ+ community

9% are first-generation university students

4% self-identify as Indigenous

22 mother tongues spoken

81 cities of birth in 26 countries are represented

23 are dual citizens

 

[Munk29]

17 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

As of now, you don't have a single law school acceptance,

False, you are implying things I never said 😉 You should work on your anger issues 💕

18 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

You can't honestly believe that any more than 5 or 10% of the applicant pool

Again, you’re literally making up data on this one, I hope you’re not planning on going down the research path lol 

[Munk29]

24 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

9% are first-generation university students

This is literally the only part of diversity I was originally referring to. First Gen and low income. You’re just validating my point by quoting this percentage. 

[Avatar Aang]

38 minutes ago, Munk29 said:

False, you are implying things I never said 😉 You should work on your anger issues 💕

Again, you’re literally making up data on this one, I hope you’re not planning on going down the research path lol 

If you're serious about being a lawyer, you need to stop with the ad hominem attacks. You'll be thrown out of a courtroom if this is how you defend your arguments. 

You can see the title "lawyer" under my name right? Why would I be angry that an applicant such as yourself is arguing with me on an online forum. I find this dialogue entertaining - nothing more. 

I'm making a rational estimate. Tell yourself what you want to believe to make yourself feel better, but most applicants would have heard a decision by now. The fact that only you and one or two others are ranting in this thread shows that this is not a widespread issue. 

32 minutes ago, Munk29 said:

This is literally the only part of diversity I was originally referring to. First Gen and low income. You’re just validating my point by quoting this percentage. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/583109/low-income-population-percentage-quebec/#:~:text=Low income population percentage Quebec 2000-2018&text 

14.0 percent of the population of Quebec was considered to be in low income in 2018.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-pr-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=PR&GC=24&TOPIC=7 

First generation (born abroad)    1,055,130    13.6%    

What is off-putting is the "I am so special and should be admitted" attitude. You are not special. Relative to the Quebec population as a whole, McGill's stats show that they ensure diversity in socioeconomic status. Given overall law school acceptance rates and the emphasis on GPA and LSAT scores, the fact that nearly 10% are first generation and low income are good numbers. It has also been shown through research and statistics that first generation and low-income students have lower educational achievement rates overall. 

[Squeen]

I think some of y'all are really missing the point here. The point isn't admit me or I belong to a certain class or group therefore I need to be in. That is not the case. It is all about respecting the deadline. If an applicant is told that they will be hearing back by a certain date, that should be the case. We understand Covid might be impacting the way things are done, but we all are impacted. Transparency and communication is key. If the deadline is missed, applicants can be informed in terms of the delay. 

 

And plus we need to stop with this "Oh if you wanted to get admitted early you should have a high LSAT or GPA or maybe be competitive or else you pretty much  don't have a say" mentality. LSAT and GPA is not an indication of the person's ability to be a good lawyer. Life happens and at times experiences and overcoming obstacles can speak for it self. Before any attacks, I am not implying that GPA and LSAT aren't important factors. But if someone applied regardless of their grade or LSAT score deserves and answer within the time frame that was promised. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Squeen

[efrefgg]

51 minutes ago, Munk29 said:

😉 You should work on your anger issues 💕

clf.com [GONE ROMANTIC]

[Munk29]

16 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

If you're serious about being a lawyer, you need to stop with the ad hominem attacks.

I invite to read and follow your own advice and then go back to your previous comment. And honestly, if you’re a lawyer spending their weekend arguing with applicants to a school you’ve never been to, I wouldn’t like to be you nor receive any “advice” from you. Glad you find this entertaining, here is a list of maybe more fulfilling entertainment you can do in your free time: 

- watch a documentary

- read a book

- set new fitness goals

- volunteer somewhere 

- be a foster home for pets 

Just throwing ideas here and there 

20 minutes ago, Avatar Aang said:

What is off-putting is the "I am so special and should be admitted" attitude.

I never had the “I am so special you should admit me” attitude, but the “you promised and set a new deadline without honoring it and I deserve, as any other applicant, an official answer on time”. 

[CleanHands]

6 hours ago, artsydork said:

Why are some of y'all getting into an argument in an admissions post about a school you didn't even go to/apply to this cycle?

 

So nobody should be allowed to challenge someone's inane ramblings unless we have a direct interest in the subject matter, and we should let threads like this become echo chambers of people in the same situation validating one another's "woe is me" BS? Fuck that.

[Squeen]

2 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

So nobody should be allowed to challenge someone's inane ramblings unless we have a direct interest in the subject matter, and we should let threads like this become echo chambers of people in the same situation validating one another's "woe is me" BS? Fuck that.

LOL if anyone suggests that, then i think it would be better to just DM each other and form a group and talk about it. We are creating DISCUSSIONS for a reason. 

[Munk29]

5 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

So nobody should be allowed to challenge someone's inane ramblings unless we have a direct interest in the subject matter, and we should let threads like this become echo chambers of people in the same situation validating one another's "woe is me" BS? Fuck that.

^ nope, you can give your opinion of course. Just not make up data on what you’re assuming is going on in a school and admin you’ve never have to deal with 🙂 

 

All I see is white/privileged people who’ve been triggered tbh 😂