The Lateral Market

[pinball]

Just a place to continue the discussion from the similarly titled LS.ca thread. Some topics discussed were:

1. Lateraling to the US;

2. Lateraling within Bay Street;

3. Moving In-House;

4. Increased number of recruiters reaching out to associates; and,

5. Increased number of ads in OR's Careers Section.

[pinball]

To get the discussion going, looks like this week's OR no longer has the massive US lateral ad from ZSA that was running for about 2 months straight, though there are other ads for US-based positions.

[nayaab05]

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/06/milbank-raises-21/

10-15K salary bumps announced…

[Grey]

I would hope that Bay St firms feel some pressure to raise salaries again. The bump a year or two ago was tiny when you consider salaries were the same for years before that. I think the number of Bay associates being poached to the US will only continue to increase, and if firms here want to retain them they're going to have to budge more on comp in my opinion. In the past year or so there's been a not insignificant number of associates at my firm who have left for NY / CA. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Grey

[pinball]

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/06/davis-polk-salary-21/

 

Firms feeling the need to out-do each other...

 

[ResJudicata]

That salary bump is VERY tempting... lol. Is lateraling to the US possible for those of us not in corporate M&A? Think areas like IP, Estates, Tax, Real Estate etc.... I've only spoken with a couple of Canadian recruiters about this awhile back and they've all suggested that it's much harder (if not impossible) to lateral from one of those areas vs. corporate. Anyone know if switching to corporate M&A before lateraling is the only way?

[JohnsonWest]

On 6/18/2021 at 1:08 PM, ResJudicata said:

That salary bump is VERY tempting... lol. Is lateraling to the US possible for those of us not in corporate M&A? Think areas like IP, Estates, Tax, Real Estate etc.... I've only spoken with a couple of Canadian recruiters about this awhile back and they've all suggested that it's much harder (if not impossible) to lateral from one of those areas vs. corporate. Anyone know if switching to corporate M&A before lateraling is the only way?

friend working out there told me basically what you already know, capital markets/M&A it's very possible if you're at a top tier national/regional firm out here, in terms of litigation and the areas you mentioned it's far far more difficult. 

[Hitman9172]

I know some financial services and real estate lawyers that have recently lateraled from big Canadian firms in Toronto and Vancouver to New York and San Francisco. I'm sure corporate/M&A is much easier though.

[MOL]

Maybe tax, especially if have experience in cross border issues? Trade law? Bird law?

[pinball]

Business Insider reporting that 31 Canadian lawyers have lateralled to US law firms so far in 2021, up from 28 in all of 2020 (35 in 2019, 25 in 2018).

“A ton of us are going down,” said a recent arrival from Canada who advises clients in the venture-capital industry and is about to join two other Canadian-American firms. The associate asked to speak anonymously because he did not have permission from his firm to be interviewed. “I feel like I’m doing the same thing except making a lot more money.”

The article is paywalled, but a free version (albeit with ads) can be found here:

https://businesshala.com/us-law-firms-are-so-hungry-for-talent-theyre-poaching-young-canadian-lawyers-who-are-getting-30-pay-bumps/

 

[Jaggers]

If those numbers are accurate, it doesn't seem like this is really a thing. You're talking about thirty more people than in previous years, and there are easily 30 equally qualified people knocking on Bay St firm doors looking for a job. Those numbers are not likely to drive compensation in Canada unless it's a really sustained trend (yes, 30 extra students every year going to the US would cause firms to sit up and take notice).

[KOMODO]

Yeah, I think I mentioned this in the LS thread, but I don't think this is a major thing. It's pretty concentrated to the M&A groups in a few firms. The vast majority of Bay Street associates with experience are not looking to relocate to the States, write bar exams, etc. 

I do think the cost of housing in Canada and general rise in billable rates could push salaries higher, but I don't think southern brain drain is going to have a huge impact. 

[Rashabon]

I've also typically only seen it in M&A/capital markets practices.

KOMODO, you would know better, but it seems like lateralling as a mid-level CRE associate isn't going to be all that helpful, since real estate is very jurisdictional, as an example. Same with litigation.

[KOMODO]

1 hour ago, Rashabon said:

I've also typically only seen it in M&A/capital markets practices.

KOMODO, you would know better, but it seems like lateralling as a mid-level CRE associate isn't going to be all that helpful, since real estate is very jurisdictional, as an example. Same with litigation.

Yeah, I think it would be a pretty high hill to climb if you had a substantive Ontario real estate practice and wanted to relocate to the States. I suspect that the CRE associates who do lateral are doing more corporate support work, providing comments and diligence for share purchase agreements, etc. rather than getting into the thick of providing substantive purchase/sale advice (at least for the first few years). Of course a lot of the contract drafting and negotiation skills are transferable but it would take time (i.e. you would be nearly starting from scratch) to understand the legal basis for ownership well enough to provide competent pure CRE advice. Not to mention that so many of the documents we use are generally accepted by local practitioners because they've developed in our bar over time....I would have no idea what kind of language is market in Boston or wherever. 

[Hitman9172]

On 6/25/2021 at 7:51 AM, Rashabon said:

I've also typically only seen it in M&A/capital markets practices.

KOMODO, you would know better, but it seems like lateralling as a mid-level CRE associate isn't going to be all that helpful, since real estate is very jurisdictional, as an example. Same with litigation.

I've had a few friends in commercial real estate law from BC head down South (to SF, Washington, and NY). I think them having done a lot of financing work was a big sell for the US firms they were recruited by. I am kind of skeptical of how transferable their real estate practices will be when they decide to come back in a a few years (if that's what they choose to do), as I have heard that RE lawyers are more service-type lawyers in US firms, and like you said, learning the ropes for that jurisdiction's real estate law will take a few years on its own.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Hitman9172

[KOMODO]

Saw this note on LinkedIn from a recruiter today:

To my Canadian candidates: There is a lot of disinformation going around about US law firms hiring Canadians on a permanent remote basis. Today, we connected with the firms offering remote options and unfortunately, due to tax reasons, you cannot work remotely in Canada on a permanent basis. Recruiters who are telling folks that this is an option, are simply not being honest.  I have extensive experience placing Canadians in the US market. Being Canadian, I understand your background and what law firms in the US look for in a Canadian candidate. Feel free to reach out if you want to explore the market. I'd be happy to chat with you!

[Rashabon]

I'm actually curious how hot the market is. I think I got 6-7 recruiter emails this week alone, but recruiters get paid to recruit, so is there a demand, or are these brokers working both ends to make money? The market is obviously hotter than any other time in recent memory, but so much of it is recruiters reaching out generally and not with specific mandates (which is how lateral moves to the US were more likely to materialize previously).

If anyone is curious, here's a current salary guide for the offshore island markets:

https://invenio-global.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Invenio-OFFSHORE-LEGAL-JOBS-Salary-Guide.pdf

[PalomaBlanca]

My first comment ever on this forum after lurking for a while so I hope it's OK to switch gears from the US/Canada lateral market to discussing new calls.

People have commented in several posts that the lateral market is better than ever right now. Can someone comment on the position of new calls who were not hired back and what happens to them? I'm trying to grasp the position of articling students who are forced into the job hunt for associate positions versus the law firms who were able to select their preferred articling students to become associates (and are presumably set for the coming years). I will add that the job posts I am currently seeing all require 3-5 years post-call experience - is it fair to conclude that most new calls stick around for at least 3 years before they consider lateral moves? 

 

Thanks in advance for any insights. 

[Rearden]

On 7/5/2021 at 3:11 PM, PalomaBlanca said:

I will add that the job posts I am currently seeing all require 3-5 years post-call experience - is it fair to conclude that most new calls stick around for at least 3 years before they consider lateral moves? 

I think it would be fair to say that you would have historically expected to see the most movement around the 3-year mark, although that may be less true in today's market. Anecdotally, I know of a number of people in the 1-2 year range who made lateral moves (to other Bay St firms or to NY/Cali) or moved in-house this year. I also know of articling students on Bay who opted out of hireback to go to NY/Cali.

[Rashabon]

On 7/5/2021 at 3:11 PM, PalomaBlanca said:

My first comment ever on this forum after lurking for a while so I hope it's OK to switch gears from the US/Canada lateral market to discussing new calls.

People have commented in several posts that the lateral market is better than ever right now. Can someone comment on the position of new calls who were not hired back and what happens to them? I'm trying to grasp the position of articling students who are forced into the job hunt for associate positions versus the law firms who were able to select their preferred articling students to become associates (and are presumably set for the coming years). I will add that the job posts I am currently seeing all require 3-5 years post-call experience - is it fair to conclude that most new calls stick around for at least 3 years before they consider lateral moves? 

 

Thanks in advance for any insights. 

There is a lot more movement these days out of the big firms to lateral opportunities (off the top of my head, two or three relatively new calls (1 to 2 years) have left to other countries). The firm in turn then is looking to replace some of that lost talent. So while generally it is the case that new calls stick around for some kind, it's not always the case.

Articling students forced into the job hunt are obviously at a disadvantage compared to associates hired back, generally.

[Labienus]

From my what I know and my recent experience the lateral market for associates with 1 or 2 years plus post-call is currently the best it's been in years. Lots of opportunities out there.

 

[Hitman9172]

In the 5ish years I've been in law, this is by far the best lateral market I've seen for associates - both across Canada and the US.

[Jaggers]

Rare actual job for someone who wants to practice international human rights law!

 

[disgruntledpelican]

It appears that corporate is super hot. Lots of people "trading up" firms such as going from mid-size or regional firms to large Bay St. firms that lost associates to the U.S. or in house.

I was recruited by a Bay St. firm without prior firm experience.

[HammurabiTime]

Anyone have any sight on how this has impacted the Vancouver and Calgary markets?