Toronto 1L Recruit 2024

[Godisfaithful]

PFO - Davies

30 minutes ago

[ronronisawesome]

osler ITC just now!

[MeowMeow6]

PFO Osler 

[Godisfaithful]

36 minutes ago, MeowMeow6 said:

PFO Osler 

Same

[legalbarbie]

anyone know if there are different levels of PFOs? the one I just got from Osler seems particularly positive? Maybe they are all like this and im just reading into it but the one I got from Blakes was a lot more of a "we dont want you" vibe. 

[Rashabon]

12 minutes ago, legalbarbie said:

anyone know if there are different levels of PFOs? the one I just got from Osler seems particularly positive? Maybe they are all like this and im just reading into it but the one I got from Blakes was a lot more of a "we dont want you" vibe. 

No. If they don't interview you they don't interview you.

[CleanHands]

18 minutes ago, legalbarbie said:

anyone know if there are different levels of PFOs?

lol law students 🤣

[chaboywb]

8 minutes ago, CleanHands said:

lol law students 🤣

I have sympathy because I recall getting my first few PFOs and trying to rationalize how I just barely didn't make the cut because of how kind the language was.

But to @legalbarbie - no, PFOs are cut and paste. If they were interested, you'd have gotten an interview. But keep your head up as this recruit is a major longshot and not at all indicative of your potential future success.

[CleanHands]

3 minutes ago, chaboywb said:

I have sympathy because I recall getting my first few PFOs and trying to rationalize how I just barely didn't make the cut because of how kind the language was.

Just imagining someone in hiring in BigLaw going "this application is pretty good but doesn't quite make the cut with all the competitive applications we have, so give them the nice rejection letter, but this application is embarrassing so make sure you give them the rude rejection letter" is fucking hilarious. It's so absurd that the level of neurosis required to consider the possibility that it's a thing is something else.

[BlockedQuebecois]

Next y'all are going to tell me that my ex didn't mean it when she told me she wanted to be with me, just not right now

[Rigel]

Just wondering in previous years did McMillan and A&B send PFOs? Still heard nothing and I treated this as potential PFOs.😔

[Rashabon]

If anyone wonders why some firms are very direct in their PFOs or other formal communications around this process, now you know... 🙂. Law students will take any sign of kindness or gentleness as flirtation.

[StoneMason]

In fairness to legalbarbie’s question, the Osler PFO did have a line in there about contacting if there are any cancellations. Giving law students even the slimmest glimmer of hope doesn’t seem like kindness or gentleness.

Edited February 5 by StoneMason

[whatisgoingon]

1 hour ago, CleanHands said:

Just imagining someone in hiring in BigLaw going "this application is pretty good but doesn't quite make the cut with all the competitive applications we have, so give them the nice rejection letter, but this application is embarrassing so make sure you give them the rude rejection letter" is fucking hilarious. It's so absurd that the level of neurosis required to consider the possibility that it's a thing is something else.

Hey! @legalbarbie was quite literally just kindly asking a question. There is absolutely no need to have written all that; it is clear that a hobby is needed. Next time, tell them that firms send out a standard PFO to everyone and move. There is no need to bust out the dictionary to roast someone anonymously. Although legalbarbie was unaware of the customs of 1L rejection letters (like most people), at least they have manners and don't appear chronically online like you do. 

[CleanHands]

4 minutes ago, whatisgoingon said:

Hey! @legalbarbie was quite literally just kindly asking a question. There is absolutely no need to have written all that; it is clear that a hobby is needed. Next time, tell them that firms send out a standard PFO to everyone and move. There is no need to bust out the dictionary to roast someone anonymously. Although legalbarbie was unaware of the customs of 1L rejection letters (like most people), at least they have manners and don't appear chronically online like you do. 

LOL which word there required you to consult a dictionary, bud?

[livelaughlovelaw]

1 hour ago, CleanHands said:

Just imagining someone in hiring in BigLaw going "this application is pretty good but doesn't quite make the cut with all the competitive applications we have, so give them the nice rejection letter, but this application is embarrassing so make sure you give them the rude rejection letter" is fucking hilarious. It's so absurd that the level of neurosis required to consider the possibility that it's a thing is something else.

Yikes... sounds like someone's projecting a bit? @legalbarbie seemed to be asking a totally valid question and considering that this is FIRST YEAR law recruit, it makes sense that they may not be aware of the language of PFOs. Would you mind sharing which Bay Street law firm you allegedly work at to be able to speak to a first year student like that? It would be helpful to know where so I can be sure NOT to apply to a firm that hires arrogant people like yourself.

Edited February 5 by livelaughlovelaw

[CleanHands]

I'm not going to engage with obvious sockpuppets. Mods may want to check IPs though.

[B_Stone]

Just got an ITC from Hicks Morley

[Turtles]

2 hours ago, legalbarbie said:

anyone know if there are different levels of PFOs? the one I just got from Osler seems particularly positive? Maybe they are all like this and im just reading into it but the one I got from Blakes was a lot more of a "we dont want you" vibe. 

The only different version of PFOs are when you receive the standard generic PFO followed almost immediately by a direct email from the recruiter telling you how great an applicant you were, explaining why they can't proceed with you in this recruit, and inviting you to visit the firm before the next recruit if you don't land something better before then. 

Anything else = boilerplate generic PFO = don't read into it.

And even a nice personal note from the recruiter = they don't see hiring you worth it right now = focus your energy elsewhere.

[GoatDuck]

ITC from Davies

[Rigel]

Sent an email to McMillan and was told that they won't be any further ITCs. 😔 Anyone heard anything from BLG?

[pastmidnight]

4 hours ago, legalbarbie said:

anyone know if there are different levels of PFOs? the one I just got from Osler seems particularly positive? Maybe they are all like this and im just reading into it but the one I got from Blakes was a lot more of a "we dont want you" vibe. 

Some firms use softer language than others when sending rejections, some are more blunt. Osler’s Vancouver office is similarly gentler in its communications with students.

Do not read into the language used in PFOs or other emails from firms. 1Ls and 2Ls during the recruit often overanalyze every email they receive from a firm, compare them with emails their friends received, and send themselves into a tizzy over nothing. It’s hard, but for your own wellbeing try your best not to do this. If you do decide to look for subliminal messages in the emails you receive, you’re only going to stress yourself out, and you’ll look back and wonder what on earth you were thinking.

Good luck to everyone on their interviews. And if you didn't get any -- things are going to be fine.

[sillybilly123]

Genuine question - did all Osler ITCs include dinner invitations? Did any other firms send out lunch/dinner invites?

[Dinsdale]

5 hours ago, legalbarbie said:

anyone know if there are different levels of PFOs? the one I just got from Osler seems particularly positive? Maybe they are all like this and im just reading into it but the one I got from Blakes was a lot more of a "we dont want you" vibe. 

I disagree with those who have said "no" to this.  Yes, there are different levels.  This is only the 1L recruit, don't forget.  They might well be signaling "no, but please apply again in 2L when you'll have a much better chance".  They are not interested in alienating candidates they might need as applicants in the fall.  They might even be signaling a wait-list type situation, though usually firms are a bit clearer if you are in that predicament.

2 hours ago, Turtles said:

The only different version of PFOs are when you receive the standard generic PFO followed almost immediately by a direct email from the recruiter telling you how great an applicant you were, explaining why they can't proceed with you in this recruit, and inviting you to visit the firm before the next recruit if you don't land something better before then. 

Anything else = boilerplate generic PFO = don't read into it.

And even a nice personal note from the recruiter = they don't see hiring you worth it right now = focus your energy elsewhere.

OK, that is in line with my point.  That is an example of how one firm says "no at the moment, but please apply in the fall".

4 hours ago, StoneMason said:

In fairness to legalbarbie’s question, the Osler PFO did have a line in there about contacting if there are any cancellations. Giving law students even the slimmest glimmer of hope doesn’t seem like kindness or gentleness.

Then that is a maybe, not a PFO.  Believe it or not, firms get "PFO'd" too as Calls Day approaches, and sometimes need to backfill.

Edited February 5 by Dinsdale

[legalbarbie]

Thank to everyone who came to my defence. I didn’t think my question would spark as much of an uproar because of the difference in language in the Blake’s v Osler PFO, lol. As someone else said, it’s also a 1L recruit so information is limited and I don’t go to UofT or osgoode where I get the vibe there’s a lot more readily available knowledge/resources about this recruit. I didn’t even know what first choice language was until super recently. That being said, it is now CRYSTAL CLEAR to me that a PFO, is a PFO no matter how nice it might sound. But there still seems to be some differing opinions about the tone of emails. 
 

I wish everyone best of luck in the recruit and on call day tomorrow. It’s clear that this stuff can make people’s emotions run high but just remember whatever happens now isn’t the end of the world. Having this forum has been really helpful for not feeling like I’m alone in this. Also a little kindness behind the screen goes a long way so thanks to everyone who validated that my question wasn’t flat out stupid.

 

Also just got ITCs from Hicks Morley and Davies to anyone wondering!