Students General

I'll respond in part, specifically to the family bar issue. I'm explaining things you already know so those interested in the area know what they're getting into. It can be pretty combative and toxic. For one, there are a lot of folks who instruct scorched earth - do whatever you need to in order to get what I want. It encourages sharp practice. Next, it's rarely the case that one side is there with "clean hands", but a lot of family lawyers jump in with both barrels loaded, nasty affidavits, and insist your client is the bad guy. So, naturally, your client insists on responding in kind - and levied with awful accusations, how can you not? Sometimes, the other party is such an asshole you find yourself emotionally invested in making the judge see how much of an obstructionist, entitled asshole the other party is. Part of the job here is your own emotional management as well as client management and practice management. Some are better than others at not allowing their own emotions to get involved, and they won't engage in pissing matches for the sake of a fight. The family bar and bench know who the lawyers are that manage these things better than others. Now, sharp practice. It happens a lot but needs to be distinguished from the easy to deal with on the phone but "jerks" in court situations. The latter is part of the job. You have to advocate for your client and because most family bars are small, you deal with the same few counsel over and over and over. To survive, you have to learn they're doing a job in the courtroom and, more often than not, they're quite different people in the barrister's room. That said, and I think you pointed to it, there are plenty of toxic and sharp lawyers that try to take advantage of your junior status, naievty, and good nature but they're not limited to family practice. Unfortunately, most of the time you just figure out who those people and learn to deal with them (eg, no off-the-record calls, taking principled position in court). Family practice is tough because you need to know so much about many different areas of law and it's fertile ground for bullies, whether they're self-reps or blowhard lawyers. You'll be taken advantage of if you're inexperienced or "soft". In my experience, survival and thriving is predicated on managing your reputation as level-headed, even-tempered, able to manage clients but a strong advocate. Over time, you build working relationships with other reasonable lawyers and it makes the job easier. You figure out who the others are and practice detaching yourself from their consuming vortex of their aggressive, shitty antics. This isn't unique to family practice, but boy oh boy family court is a common place for grandstanding and moralistic platitudes. Now, after that, Diplock is right. You cannot survive in family practice if you can't handle the stress of constant conflict and emotional management. Your job is to help someone through one of the worst periods of their life and deal with their messy emotional complexities within a legal system that tries its best to deal with it (while leaving no one happy most of the time). You're regularly dealing with physical/sexual abuse, infidelity, intertwined finances, child custody and access, etc. and it can be draining if you're not cut out for that kind of work. There's a reason the attrition rate after 5 years is as high as it is. If you are, however, it's a deeply satisfying and enriching practice. Oh, and not every file is a fight for every inch. I've had many amicable separations where the parties just want to put their arrangement into a written agreement. They're wonderful files but aren't the ones people talk (or, rather, bitch) about. I might write more later but my thumbs are getting tired.

The portal updates first at 1 a.m., at least that's when I saw mine. Then you get the email at around 2:43 a.m.

With PLTC starting in BC soon I thought I would write out a few of the tips that I found helpful. I only spoke to a few people before starting PLTC and there was so much I had no idea about until the course started. Hopefully, this is helpful. Sitting on zoom for 3-6 hours per day sucks. This took a toll on my mental health. Do whatever you need to stay healthy. I know it is obvious but do not give up on your health/fitness during this time. Do not fall behind the schedule. The first 2 weeks are relatively light. Use this time wisely. Once assignments and assessments start, the workload ramps up quickly. Participate and prepare for each class. Most of the material that you need to read for in-class activities you also need to read for your exams. I found that by the time exams rolled around I had already gone through most of the material by staying on top of the weekly schedule. ***BUT not all of the readings for the exams are assigned in the weekly schedule. This means you need to complete these readings on your own time. Brightspace is annoying to use. Play around with it and get used to finding the material you need. Sometimes material on brightspace is only available after a certain date/time. Make sure to note this so you can come back and download the material. WATCH ALL OF THE VIDEOS. The videos were by far the most useful material provided. Especially for the assessments. Treat your ungraded assignments like they are graded assessments. By learning and putting effort into the assignments, by the time the assessment comes around, most of the preparation is done! Make a group chat with your classmates. It was nice to have a place to ask my stupid questions and we would remind each other of deadlines etc. For assessments, FOLLOW THE MARKING GUIDE. Your instructor will give you feedback on your assignment so make sure to incorporate all of that feedback back into your assessment. For those of you who have started articling or have done legal work before, it can be hard at first to kick habits. For example, your firm might have a certain way that they write contracts or conduct interviews. Essentially forget what you learned before (unless they happen to be the exact same way that PLTC wants you to do it) and follow the PLTC guides to a tee. This is not the time for creativity. Practice using all of your hardcopy materials, whether you decide to use indices or stick with the table of contents provided On that note, DO THE PRACTICE EXAMS. They give you a good feel for what the exams will be like. The exams are not like law school exams. For example, if a question asks you to provide two examples and you list three examples and one is incorrect then you will not get full marks for that question. Read what the question asks carefully The Law Society does a great job of providing students with materials on what to expect in the course. It is a lot of material to go through but read through it during those first two weeks and you will be set. I have more tips but this is already pretty long... If anyone has questions I am happy to answer them and good luck to everyone starting PLTC!

Ful disclosure. I do criminal law and not family. I'm only answering because as I've observed before, there are significant similarities in the practical realities of these two practice areas. The law is very different, of course, but the experience of doing the job is similar. First, with respect to appearing in court, I can't imagine how you can practice meaningfully while avoiding that completely. That's like trying to play tennis without a backhand. While it's technically possible, you'll never be good at the whole game no matter how strong you are in other ways. I understand the "no one taught me how" fear, but you indicate you managed to learn other things on your own, so what's the barrier here? You can even sit and watch stuff happen in court if you feel you need a basic orientation to how it works. My basic point being, I think your barrier here goes beyond poor mentorship. Second, while there are similarities between family and crim there is also one massive difference. Family lawyers end up opposite one another regularly, while defence are all on one team. And even our interactions with the Crown are asymmetrical in our obligations. In family, you have a client your are fighting for while some other colleague ia fighting equally for their client. It does get heated and it always will. Of course there are ways to manage that professionally, and some are better than others at staying professional, but I feel like that confrontation is a problem for you. I feel like you could be a good lawyer and do this well. I feel like you could get good results for your clients. But you'll only ever do it by directly confronting other lawyers, in court and otherwise, who also want to get good results for their clients in a way that screws over yours. There's no getting around that. If you're terrified of court to me that suggests you're trying to do everything with mediation. And while it's good to work things out that way whenever possible, that approach cannot always work. So if you want to do this, get comfortable with the adversarial nature of litigation. Because I feel like that's where your real hang up exists. Good luck. And hugs.

When I wrote the bar in 2022, a good friend tried to get accommodations from the LSO and had an absolutely terrible time of it. Their accommodation wasn’t extra time, just the ability to pause time when away from the test. Start the accommodation process early, it takes time.

I wonder how far they got down yesterday, since only position #31 has posted🤔

Hi all, I will preface by saying I am not really sure what I am asking for here. I think some ruthless feedback, a slap in the face, or some words of encouragement. I was called a couple years ago - I felt a strong pull towards family law throughout law school. My articling experience was trash, I had zero mentorship and saw my principal a handful of times. I was given almost every family file to figure out on my own. The senior lawyer took the family litigation files and never invited me to attend or learn. I never went to court or got that exposure or experience. I did a huge amount of self-studying and enjoyed learning the how-to's of family law. OC would occasionally compliment me on my work and most of my clients were very pleased with my work. When the firm offered me an associate position, I provided a proposal of things I would need to feel confident remaining at the firm, which culminated in me leaving the firm the same day as my bar call. I foolishly had not done any networking throughout my articling and therefore had no network to fall back on - several local lawyers offered me jobs, but I always had someone else whispering in my ear that it would be terrible to work there, that they were not a good lawyer, etc. Almost two years into this, I can now acknowledge that I live in an area with some serious toxicity amongst the local bar. Anyway, I was on the struggle bus and with seemingly only crappy prospects available to me, I decided to throw up my own shingle. I know this freaks many lawyers out hearing that a fresh call did this - please know that I was very selective in the files that I took and always referred out anything I did not feel competent enough to assist with. This meant not taking on any court work, as I felt it would be a disservice to my clients since I had no experience in that area. I lived off of peanuts, and continued networking. Finally, a seemingly fantastic opportunity presented itself - a very established sole was looking for some new blood to train up and transfer his firm over to. Unfortunately, this was mostly bullshit, and I was once again on my own at the firm - this time with no meeting room to see clients in and one paralegal who had no time for me. I had no mentorship and was in fact cleaning up a lot of the stinky files that had fallen into oblivion. I was paid shit, and treated like shit. A few weeks ago I decided I had to leave before I became a shell of a human. I still feel pulled to family, but my experience in the profession to this point has led me to this awful place of decision paralysis where I don't know where to go next - I am terrified at the thoughts of going to court - I have a visceral reaction when I receive an email from a client or a call from OC - everything suddenly feels so combative and aggressive. I can't imagine joining another firm and going through the same thing again. I have been attending counselling, I recognize these are signs that I need some support. I have been offered a few jobs in different areas of law but feel in my gut that family is the only area that will actually fulfill me if I am going to stay in this profession. I am very close to leaving the legal profession in general, which makes me feel like a quitter, but I have had my ass handed to me since day one and I am getting close to being done with all of it. It's difficult not to feel a sense of envy when I meet colleagues who had amazing post-call experiences, excellent mentorship, etc. I guess I am just wondering if anyone has had similar experiences, how they got themselves out of the proverbial rut, if anyone can speak to whether they have a fulfilling family law practice, resources or ideas for getting court exposure, or if someone could give me virtual hug and remind me there are good lawyers out there rooting for the juniors. Thank you. 🙂

The accommodation forms are public so you can check them out, difficulty is another matter. Trying to discern how the LSO weighs your doctor's opinion is a bit beyond me. But from the nature of the paperwork I'd say they aren't too liberal with it.

I will likely be accepting

I’d have to double check some old bills, but I don’t think you’re getting substantially cheaper representation in Japan. In HK you’re probably working with a UK or US firm anyway. Singapore is cheaper than Canada, but not by a lot. Korean billable hour rates might be lower - would need to check - but they also have that secret sauce that somehow ends up driving a bill up every time with 8+ lawyers staffed where 4 competent ones would suffice. Mideast you might be working with a US firm. SA would always be cheaper than Canada. Cayman/BVI isn’t far off.

To be fair, most NY PE associates would tell you we’re pretty shocked by how many lawyers Bay firms (…some in particular…) staff on a deal. I still don’t really understand why as lead counsel I can do with 4 lawyers while Toronto as local counsel in one jurisdiction among a half dozen needs 8 or whatever. UK and Canadian firms both seem to staff up a lot heavier than elsewhere. Also, I’m kind of confused by your description here. If NY was acting as lead counsel, what exactly were they doing if not negotiating and handling the SPA? Local counsel usually just checks some boxes for local legal points - it’s not heavy lifting.

Thanks for posting! May I ask if you'll be declining or accepting?

Accepted off the wait list yesterday. position 31 4.0/4.5 158 out of province deadline may 31

Scaling down from A and A- on all assignments to C+ is over the top and seems like a poorly managed course the way you have described it. Re-read the syllabus to see if there is any information provided on course average, scaling, etc. I would check into the rules and procedure involved in challenging a grade at your law school and what exact rights you have in that process. It may be there is an intermediate step where you can get a better understanding of what happened in this course before you make the decision on whether to challenge. Try seeing if grades and averages are listed for past years in your course to get an idea how this course has been handled, search online to see what the exact percentage rules are for a class of this size, etc.

Yeah so when you appeal you need to attach proof you tried to talk to the prof. So just have that ready to go.