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OCIs, summer jobs, applying for articling.
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What's Happening
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Currently down after a rejection. Please chance me for TRU, Bora Laskin, uOttawa. Already waitlisted at UNB. Rejected at UBC, UVIC, and Windsor Single
Although discretionary can be a wildcard I'd say your chances aren't great unless you improve your LSAT (I'm assuming you have graduated so you can't fix your GPA ). Although you have an access claim and good softs, those often aren't enough when you are below average on both GPA and LSAT. I'm sure if you put your mind to it you can crack the 160s! -
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Building criminal law competency without having previous experiences
Firms outside of the major cities are more likely to have a more diversified practice. I only say this because I assume you ( @beachhouse ) have some experience in an area of law other than criminal and you just want to test the waters. So if you works for a smaller town civil/real estate/family/criminal form you might be able to take on some criminal files without too much commitment, and you'd perhaps have the flexibility of getting out of the crim or deeper into crim based on your preferences once you know if you like it.- 1
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Entering 1L Advice
Let's assume your goal is to get good grades in 1L. You should have other goals, like building relationships and finding the area of law that interests you, but let's assume you are just concerned with performing well academically. 1L throws a million things at you: Read 5 very large and very dense books Read a million optional articles Join clubs Attend this optional session and that optional session The end goal for most courses is a very short, 100% exam. You spend 2 or 3 hours tying up the key points in response to a few fact patterns, and then it's over. First year left me with the felling "What do I get to demonstrate my knowledge of the 100 obscure articles you made me read?" and "When do I get the chance to demonstrate the knowledge I gained from 500 hours of studying without an extreme time crunch?" You don't. You don't have to know much about the law to do well on exams. Students with a very basic knowledge who issue spot fast are lighting fast as putting it down on paper are much more likely to get an A than a student who knows much more but needs more time to formulate an answer. You can actually get bogged down with too much knowledge. Keep your summaries brief. Cases really boil down to a takeaway of 100 words or less. You may need to read full cases to get a feel for how the law works, but in the end you will not have time on an exam to say more than a sentence or two about a case (at most). Students who are able to make their point in 40 words in 60 seconds and cite a case as authority and the appropriate section in the Criminal Code or Rules of Civil procedure get the A. The student who could give an hour long speech on the case might get a B. -
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Orientation/First Week of Classes
At Osgoode (unless they changed it) you will do only two courses for the first 10 days or so: Legal Process 1 (LP1) and Ethical Lawyering in a Global Community (ELGC). LP1 is a course with a ton of little assignments. Slightly bigger assignments include a memo and a factum. ELGC is as essay course, and what is discussed in class is not even that related to the actual performance outcome that will affect your grade. People in ELGC basically just talk about their opinions of different ethical issues. Most students do not speak at all. These classes are recorded (unless they changed that), so you can listen to the lectures later. In fact, by 2L and 3L I found that class attendance was below 50% for most courses because students were relying on the recordings. Be aware that there may be "participation" component to ELGC and LP1, so check eClass regularly and submit what you need to online even if you are out of the country (it might be brief reflection on an ethical issues, etc). If you are concerned about the "orientation" component (i.e. anything not related to a specific course), I found all of that completely worthless expect perhaps if you want to join a club (i.e. the Business Law Association or whatever). I don't recall much of importance happening in my year before Sept 1, and even then the things I thought were important turned out to be not so important (i.e. Reading the countless optional readings). -
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Finished law school, feeling defeated
I suppose emotions about finishing law school are different for different people. I moved all of my belongings out of my apartment yesterday, and it gives me a weird mix of emotions. Law school was a big part of our lives for a lot of years. Most of us put a lot of pressure on ourselves and put a lot of time towards our studies. I liked my routine and the way I had everything set up. I liked the way my favourite chair was set up, the lighting, and where I stored my food and cooking supplies. I liked the privacy and the neighbourhood. Leaving law school is like a change of employment, residence, and social circle all at the same time. There's also the "What do I do now?" element. Articling does not start for a few months. There's the bar exam to study for of course, but PR and civil procedure has got to be the most boring thing I have ever read. Some people reading this might understand, and others might wonder WTF I'm talking about. But I'm sure I'll get over it in a week at most. -
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Chances for Osgoode/Queens?
Yeah, the whole "aim for a 165" culture tends to annoy me. 165 is the 89th percentile---in order to do better than 89% of people writing the test, you've got to have some level of natural aptitude. "What if I just study really hard?" Those 89% of people are studying really hard too. "Oh, what if I just study really, really hard?" Yeah, that second "really" oughta do it. Seriously, though - coming in without having written an LSAT and saying, "Hey, what if I'm better at it than 89% of people?" is like saying, "I don't know how tall I am, but can I play in the NBA if I'm 7'4?" And, like, sure you can, but that's a big "if". Best of luck - come back when you have a stronger idea of what you can do, and we'll be able to give better advice. -
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Question for transfers
Hi!! Transfer student here!! I applied for my transfer after 2 years of law school. I still had to (re)take some first year courses since it's a combined BCL/JD and I was transferring from a BCL. I believe they don't accept a lot of transfer students, so your application must stand out. You also need good grades, a good resume and a good reason why you are now choosing McGill. Hope that helps! -
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How competitive is Letter of Permission admission at Toronto Schools in 3rd year?
Hi, I want to go to a Toronto school closer to my home (Osgoode or UOFT) for my final semester in 3L (I did a summer program so I only have one semester left). I would much rather live at home and save all the rent money compared to the school I'm currently attending. I have completed all the required courses also, just need general credits now. Does anyone have any idea how competitive admissions are in letter of permission? I am just an average student so Is it worth applying for me (spending that 400 dollar fee)? Thank you! -
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Chances for Osgoode/Queens?
I mean, I feel I wasn't too helpful (because nobody really can be to you quite yet) and you've been nice. So, I'll share this link to an old LSAT that has historically been used as a diagnostic: https://cache.careers360.mobi/media/uploads/froala_editor/files/LSAT-practice-set.pdf If you are interested in knowing your chances and you haven't gotten a diagnostic score yet, I'd recommend that as the best way to get a sense of it. Write it under timed, realistic conditions. I will note that when you write the LSAT, the logic games section will be abolished and replaced with a second logical reasoning section. So ignore the first section of this. The good news is that there are two logical reasoning sections and a reading comprehension section left, which are exactly what you will be assessed on (with an additional experimental section that doesn't count towards your score). This should give you a sense of where you're at, and maybe this comes naturally to you and you don't need to worry about getting a sub-165, and maybe you'll realize you have a lot of work to do before asking about chances. Good luck!- 2
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TMU VS Ottawa
Every single law school in Canada has adjunct practitioners (judges among them) teach a fair few courses. I don't know what TMU's ratio of practitioner-taught versus academic-taught courses is, but I wouldn't imagine it's very different from any other school's, certainly not enough to be a particularly relevant selling point. This is a really good point and you were right to emphasize it. Every law school in Canada is at the least just fine. Some are good to very good (I'm purely talking about perceived average student quality/outcomes, not educational quality; they're pretty uniformly good on that). And there are lots of practice areas where (Canadian) school choice ends up being irrelevant. You're also right to put an emphasis on what school best fits the applicant's personal circumstances (yes, OP, it sounds like you should go to TMU) rather than what's "best" in the abstract. That is, by far, the most important thing. But there are reputational differences between some schools, and, depending on your goals and profile, that can matter. I get you probably don't mean to do anything but encourage and congratulate OP and I'm sorry to sound like a pedantic joy-crushing ass here; I just want to flag that for the benefit of applicants and admits who don't know much about law schools and who might read this later. -
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Chances for Osgoode/Queens?
I mean, are you going to aim lower on the LSAT if someone says yes? Get the highest score you can. Your question about the difference between a 163 and 165 is very granular and a totally irrelevant hypothetical in the event that you end up scoring significantly higher or lower than that. There's no point asking people to entertain every possible scenario when half of your applicant profile is still to be determined. You were very polite in your OP and obviously trying not to get dunked on, but on pretty much a weekly basis here someone asks for chances with no LSAT and the answer is always to write the LSAT and get back to us, for a reason.- 2
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